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Post by Helmut83 on Oct 5, 2014 2:49:39 GMT
Talented as a singer, piano player, (arguably) guitar player and definitely as a showman. Even when Presley had one foot firmly planted in his grave, the guy still showed flashes of brilliance as a performer, IMO, and still retained his rich, booming and powerful voice. One could even argue that his voice improved with age, but as you well know, his lifestyle got the better of him and greatly impaired many of his performances. Elvis may have been and continue to be overrated by quite a few people, but I've always been able to see why he was so idolized. I can't really say the same for Berry. 'Maybe it's just personal preference in this situation. We are talking about apples and oranges here. While you don't seem to be very fascinated by the songwriting process and seem to give more attention to performing, songwriting is exactly what I admire most in a musician and what I think is the core of being a good musician. We differ in which are the main points that should be taken into account to determine what a good musician is. Besides what I described upwards ("no song to sing, no good performer"), good songwriters are, miles ahead, the most difficult ones to get. I've known approximately 1000 good performers for each good songwriter there was. You make a singing TV contest... from under the stones there come out hundreds of great singers, some of them even stunning. I've been to jams where all of a sudden a totally unknown guy goes upstage and plays guitar, bass or piano in the most incredible way. Have any famous band do a casting for an instrumentist or a singer and dozens of amazing ones will appear. But songwriters, that's a whole different thing. They are very rare, but they are the difference makers, what makes a band be good. That's why I see them as so more valuable. |
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Post by 88keys on Oct 5, 2014 4:28:21 GMT
I like early Elvis, but in the 70's he became a schlocky Vegas parody.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Oct 5, 2014 15:36:26 GMT
We are talking about apples and oranges here. While you don't seem to be very fascinated by the songwriting process and seem to give more attention to performing, songwriting is exactly what I admire most in a musician and what I think is the core of being a good musician. We differ in which are the main points that should be taken into account to determine what a good musician is. Besides what I described upwards ("no song to sing, no good performer"), good songwriters are, miles ahead, the most difficult ones to get. I've known approximately 1000 good performers for each good songwriter there was. You make a singing TV contest... from under the stones there come out hundreds of great singers, some of them even stunning. I've been to jams where all of a sudden a totally unknown guy goes upstage and plays guitar, bass or piano in the most incredible way. Have any famous band do a casting for an instrumentist or a singer and dozens of amazing ones will appear. But songwriters, that's a whole different thing. They are very rare, but they are the difference makers, what makes a band be good. That's why I see them as so more valuable. Trust me, my criteria and your own are more similar than you realize. I've often complained about non-songwriting performers receiving too much attention and veneration in the past... including on the ELO Forum Forever. It's just in this particular case, I've always been more impressed by Presley's talents, and I don't remember hearing or seeing much variation in Berry's songwriting or in his performances. |
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Post by Helmut83 on Oct 5, 2014 16:04:30 GMT
Trust me, my criteria and your own are more similar than you realize. I've often complained about non-songwriting performers receiving too much attention and veneration in the past... including on the ELO Forum Forever. It's just in this particular case, I've always been more impressed by Presley's talents, and I don't remember hearing or seeing much variation in Berry's songwriting or in his performances. Well, if you talk about variation, it clearly isn't Chuck Berry's strongest point. Too many of his songs ressemble one another, not to talk about that guitar introduction that he seemed to repeat itself in so many of his songs. But how can you compare a certain talent (singing/acting/beng a showman) to another one that is so different (songwriting)? I can only deduct that the concept you are trying to express is something along the lines of: "Elvis had more showman talent than Berry had compositional talent". Is that correct? |
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Post by Rob 2095 on Oct 5, 2014 19:01:56 GMT
Well, if you talk about variation, it clearly isn't Chuck Berry's strongest point. Too many of his songs ressemble one another, not to talk about that guitar introduction that he seemed to repeat itself in so many of his songs. But how can you compare a certain talent (singing/acting/beng a showman) to another one that is so different (songwriting)? I can only deduct that the concept you are trying to express is something along the lines of: "Elvis had more showman talent than Berry had compositional talent". Is that correct? That's more or less right. The reason I was semi comparing them in the first place was because of your response to a post of Timeblue's, and due to the fact that both of their names have been bandied about as the "King of Rock and Roll" for decades. Presley's talents as a performer (understandably) overshadowed Berry's as a songwriter. ... and I completely understand your view that the comparison is one of "apples and oranges", but I'd argue that it isn't always nonsensical to compare apples and oranges... especially when the two fruits have both been bestowed a certain title for many years.  |
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Post by jefflynnenut on Oct 5, 2014 20:03:55 GMT
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Post by jefflynnenut on Oct 5, 2014 20:05:46 GMT
This shot is for those who think Zeppelin are over rated. Screw you!;-)
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Post by Rob 2095 on Oct 5, 2014 20:18:11 GMT
This shot is for those who think Zeppelin are over rated. Screw you!;-) My crystal ball shows scenes of you and Helmut engaging in verbal (or typing) quarrels. In these scenes, Helmut is wearing striped, white and light blue trunks and a stahlhelm for some reason. |
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Post by Chippa on Oct 5, 2014 20:36:43 GMT
Chuck Berry is the real king of rock n roll. No disrespect to Elvis, but "Johnny B. Goode" is the rock n roll national anthem.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Oct 5, 2014 20:57:39 GMT
Chuck Berry is the real king of rock n roll. No disrespect to Elvis, but "Johnny B. Goode" is the rock n roll national anthem. What about Bill Haley? It seems as though his name gets mentioned less and less as time goes on. |
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Post by unomusette on Oct 5, 2014 21:01:37 GMT
Not to mention Little Richard. Epic showman and a lot more likeable than Chuck Berry
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Post by Chippa on Oct 5, 2014 21:03:27 GMT
Chuck Berry is the real king of rock n roll. No disrespect to Elvis, but "Johnny B. Goode" is the rock n roll national anthem. What about Bill Haley? It seems as though his name gets mentioned less and less as time goes on. I think Bill is looked at as more of a one hit wonder. |
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Post by Helmut83 on Oct 5, 2014 21:14:17 GMT
Not to mention Little Richard. Epic showman and a lot more likeable than Chuck Berry Likeable? He seemed more friendly than Berry, but was terribly egotistical as well. Hell of a pianist though. |
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Post by Rob 2095 on Oct 5, 2014 21:15:58 GMT
What about Bill Haley? It seems as though his name gets mentioned less and less as time goes on. I think Bill is looked at as more of a one hit wonder. Maybe so. He and the Comets still scored 14 Top 40 hits in the US and 13 in the UK, with many of those breaking into the Top 10. |
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Post by Chippa on Oct 5, 2014 21:17:57 GMT
Speaking of Chuck, check out the showdown between he and Keith Richards, from the documentary "Hail!Hail! Rock & Roll!"
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, but we're OK. 
Apparently it's quite hard to see them with the naked eye, you need to be looking through a camera or other type of lens?