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Post by elophant on Jul 24, 2021 6:49:25 GMT
Hello everyone, I feel the ultimate disintegration of ELO was down to Don Arden and not Jeff. Back me up here Shardender.
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Post by tightrope on Jul 24, 2021 15:05:21 GMT
Dick Plant's comments are the latest example. That's not prof of anything.
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wilburysteve64
Junior Member
Surviving 2022 qaqw best as I can.
Posts: 18
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Post by wilburysteve64 on Jul 24, 2021 15:27:42 GMT
While Jeff can "lift me up," please, fandom, "don't bring me down." I wish there could be a special part of the forum called "Complaints about ELO, etc." and the rest of the forum could be reserved for factual information and less negative, bitchy, hostile opinions. I would never have to look at the complaints section.
I'm happy he's alive, well, and still making music. How much longer do you think that will last? How will you remember him?
In full agreement here. Change for Jeff for better or worse has and will happen to him or anyone still remaining from the old lineup. I've since stopped trying to turn ELO or Jeff Lynne's ELO into something they are not and can't be for the fandom. That's unfortunately life.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jul 24, 2021 16:32:26 GMT
I don't see any version of events where Jeff continues on with ELO past the mid-1980s. He was so desperate to get out of his remaining contractual obligations that both Time and Secret Messages were originally intended as double albums to accelerate this process, and the second he was no longer under requirement to continue promoting Balance Of Power, he got out of there, cancelling all further shows before declining Bev's offer to reunite in November '88 by issuing a statement that announced their disbanding with immediate effect. For years leading up to that, he'd also spoken of growing to resent the need to overdub strings onto everything, and it's clear he felt backed into a corner musically. Saying that, his more recent output has similar fallen into a pattern of production hallmarks, though you could argue that he prefers this somewhat new comfort zone.
With how often ELO's line-up fluctuated, I'm almost certain that even if Jeff had continued on past those shows in July '86, we'd be looking at an almost entirely different group today. Sure, the core of Bev, Richard and probably Mik would have remained, but Kelly was already out of the picture, and I can't imagine Dave sticking around for much longer - as he said in his autobiography, the poor guy was having something of a crisis of faith in the '80s and came out of that decade a very different person. While he never truly turned his back on music, he did go on to develop a difference of opinion that admittedly drove a pretty solid wedge between himself and Richard, effectively ending their once fruitful collaboration.
For all the idealism, I'd much prefer everyone went on to enjoy long, happy and prosperous careers apart. Considering everything he'd been through in '87-8 alone, Jeff had little reason to look back, plus he'd already been offered a two-album solo deal with Reprise by that point. As for Kelly, he'd managed to find the motivation to dust himself off following the outcome of his lawsuit in October '83, release a charity single that was supposedly inspired by one of his children, and he'd found a way to recycle tracks from the scrapped Lights Out project, though further material under the Player pseudonym was scuppered when an earlier band of the same name reformed, which is how OrKestra came to be. As I've already covered, Jeff turning down Bev's invitation led to the formation of ELO Part II, and it wasn't long until OrKestra's three ex-ELO members were integrated into this new group. Meanwhile, Tandy Morgan Smith were at the height of their creative efforts together, keeping out of the growing drama around Part II, which served Richard well later.
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Post by lawrev on Jul 24, 2021 21:10:45 GMT
Dick Plant's comments are the latest example. That's not prof of anything. He was there. Unless you are Mack, a member of ELO, other recording staff, or on the payroll of Jet Records, you were not.
You want proof? Join a legal blog and litigate.
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Post by lawrev on Jul 24, 2021 21:35:50 GMT
I didn't see ELO existing past July 1986 either, but for additional reasons.
It became clear that the advent of technologies allowed Jeff to slowly shrink the band and reduce the contributions of Kelly and Bev. Time was the last truly band effort, if only because they toured to support that album. There was no real tour from mid 1982 - 86, and I don't count the BOP shows as a "tour."
If Kelly had not sued Jeff, what would have happened? He would have played on more SM tracks. Maybe. There was no tour after, and Kelly loved to tour. So what money would Kelly have made? Maybe another 1 - 3 years on the ELO payroll? He would have been bored anyway because the technology allowed Jeff to do more on his own, or with Richard. And Kelly didn't sing lead on any recorded ELO track since Discovery. And as for the years after ELO, there is no guarantee that Jeff would have used Kelly on any subsequent project he was associated with. If I were Kelly, would I have allowed Jeff Lynne to dictate my career? Everyone knew the band was in decline after 1981 anyway. Sure, Kelly paid a price with the lawsuit - but let's also remember that Jeff did everything in his power to kill any promotion for his solo album by pressuring band members to quit backing Kelly.
As has appeared in print elsewhere, but especially with regards to Tom Petty / Heartbreakers and the 1991 Into the Great Wide Open album, it was said by Petty that Jeff didn't like to produce bands, because he didn't like the politics (or Democracy? compromises?) and personalities involved with bands. While Jeff may be a humble guy at one level, at another level he is very cutthroat and strong in his opinions (of how a song should sound). Maybe this is why Jeff has not been in a touring band outside of the ELO universe after all these years. Jeff is happy to work at home and hire studio musicians. Lynne and Harrison didn't want to tour with the Wilburys either, and besides that, the only band Lynne would have played in was the Beatles.
I just don't think Jeff respected the other members of ELO at the end of the BOP gigs, with the exception of Richard. But really, Richard and Jeff did not do that much after 1986 either.
I don't see any version of events where Jeff continues on with ELO past the mid-1980s. He was so desperate to get out of his remaining contractual obligations that both Time and Secret Messages were originally intended as double albums to accelerate this process, and the second he was no longer under requirement to continue promoting Balance Of Power, he got out of there, cancelling all further shows before declining Bev's offer to reunite in November '88 by issuing a statement that announced their disbanding with immediate effect. For years leading up to that, he'd also spoken of growing to resent the need to overdub strings onto everything, and it's clear he felt backed into a corner musically. Saying that, his more recent output has similar fallen into a pattern of production hallmarks, though you could argue that he prefers this somewhat new comfort zone. With how often ELO's line-up fluctuated, I'm almost certain that even if Jeff had continued on past those shows in July '86, we'd be looking at an almost entirely different group today. Sure, the core of Bev, Richard and probably Mik would have remained, but Kelly was already out of the picture, and I can't imagine Dave sticking around for much longer - as he said in his autobiography, the poor guy was having something of a crisis of faith in the '80s and came out of that decade a very different person. While he never truly turned his back on music, he did go on to develop a difference of opinion that admittedly drove a pretty solid wedge between himself and Richard, effectively ending their once fruitful collaboration. For all the idealism, I'd much prefer everyone went on to enjoy long, happy and prosperous careers apart. Considering everything he'd been through in '87-8 alone, Jeff had little reason to look back, plus he'd already been offered a two-album solo deal with Reprise by that point. As for Kelly, he'd managed to find the motivation to dust himself off following the outcome of his lawsuit in October '83, release a charity single that was supposedly inspired by one of his children, and he'd found a way to recycle tracks from the scrapped Lights Out project, though further material under the Player pseudonym was scuppered when an earlier band of the same name reformed, which is how OrKestra came to be. As I've already covered, Jeff turning down Bev's invitation led to the formation of ELO Part II, and it wasn't long until OrKestra's three ex-ELO members were integrated into this new group. Meanwhile, Tandy Morgan Smith were at the height of their creative efforts together, keeping out of the growing drama around Part II, which served Richard well later.
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Post by tightrope on Jul 24, 2021 21:48:16 GMT
That's not prof of anything. He was there. Unless you are Mack, a member of ELO, other recording staff, or on the payroll of Jet Records, you were not.
You want proof? Join a legal blog and litigate.
Were you there? No
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Post by helpless on Jul 25, 2021 12:45:08 GMT
He was there. Unless you are Mack, a member of ELO, other recording staff, or on the payroll of Jet Records, you were not.
You want proof? Join a legal blog and litigate.
Were you there? No I'm sorry, but that's nonsense. I am a lawyer, and Dick Plant is indisputably a kind of witness. In that respect, it is out of the question to say "That's not proof of anything".
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Post by Chippa on Jul 25, 2021 14:47:50 GMT
Hello everyone, I feel the ultimate disintegration of ELO was down to Don Arden and not Jeff. Back me up here Shardender. Yea, Don was a shady guy. Check this clip out where his daughter Sharon talks about Jeff coming to her about Don owing him millions of dollars.
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Post by janne on Jul 31, 2021 7:57:14 GMT
Yeah, he's as stubborn as an old mule. Persistent in his rancour. I think you have just described 90 percent of leading men and women in bands. Name anyone and they do things on THEIR terms. Someone has to steer the ship. Bands are not a democracy.
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Post by fireonhigh on Jul 31, 2021 18:47:28 GMT
I don't see any version of events where Jeff continues on with ELO past the mid-1980s. He was so desperate to get out of his remaining contractual obligations that both Time and Secret Messages were originally intended as double albums to accelerate this process, and the second he was no longer under requirement to continue promoting Balance Of Power, he got out of there, cancelling all further shows before declining Bev's offer to reunite in November '88 by issuing a statement that announced their disbanding with immediate effect. For years leading up to that, he'd also spoken of growing to resent the need to overdub strings onto everything, and it's clear he felt backed into a corner musically. Saying that, his more recent output has similar fallen into a pattern of production hallmarks, though you could argue that he prefers this somewhat new comfort zone. With how often ELO's line-up fluctuated, I'm almost certain that even if Jeff had continued on past those shows in July '86, we'd be looking at an almost entirely different group today. Sure, the core of Bev, Richard and probably Mik would have remained, but Kelly was already out of the picture, and I can't imagine Dave sticking around for much longer - as he said in his autobiography, the poor guy was having something of a crisis of faith in the '80s and came out of that decade a very different person. While he never truly turned his back on music, he did go on to develop a difference of opinion that admittedly drove a pretty solid wedge between himself and Richard, effectively ending their once fruitful collaboration. For all the idealism, I'd much prefer everyone went on to enjoy long, happy and prosperous careers apart. Considering everything he'd been through in '87-8 alone, Jeff had little reason to look back, plus he'd already been offered a two-album solo deal with Reprise by that point. As for Kelly, he'd managed to find the motivation to dust himself off following the outcome of his lawsuit in October '83, release a charity single that was supposedly inspired by one of his children, and he'd found a way to recycle tracks from the scrapped Lights Out project, though further material under the Player pseudonym was scuppered when an earlier band of the same name reformed, which is how OrKestra came to be. As I've already covered, Jeff turning down Bev's invitation led to the formation of ELO Part II, and it wasn't long until OrKestra's three ex-ELO members were integrated into this new group. Meanwhile, Tandy Morgan Smith were at the height of their creative efforts together, keeping out of the growing drama around Part II, which served Richard well later. As well as Bev, Richard & Mik,I would also add Louis Clark to the line up who would have featured for some of the time post July 1986 if the band had continued. He was after all employed by Jeff on some his Roy Orbison tracks in the late 1980s, so their relationship was still good at that point.
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Post by Helmut83 on Jul 31, 2021 20:02:34 GMT
Yeah, he's as stubborn as an old mule. Persistent in his rancour. I think you have just described 90 percent of leading men and women in bands. Name anyone and they do things on THEIR terms. Someone has to steer the ship. Bands are not a democracy. You are right, but by "stubborn" I was talking not so much about band leadership but more about him not being able to get over his hard feelings for his old bandmates.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2021 21:27:51 GMT
I will admit that he doesn't care for anniversaries much.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jul 31, 2021 23:25:57 GMT
As well as Bev, Richard & Mik,I would also add Louis Clark to the line up who would have featured for some of the time post July 1986 if the band had continued. He was after all employed by Jeff on some his Roy Orbison tracks in the late 1980s, so their relationship was still good at that point. Although part of me can definitely see Lou staying on in a live capacity, providing there even would have been any further tours, strings were an element that I couldn't see making a stylistic return going further into the 1980s. Sadly, while it seems as if Jeff was getting into experimenting with new orchestral ideas through working with Michael Kamen, their collaboration would prove to be a tragically short one. Much like the reason we got new ELO activity so late, it always felt to me as if the strings had become a necessary obligation rather than something that came from a place of continued inspiration, with few notable exceptions.
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Post by pointofnoreturn on Aug 1, 2021 0:20:27 GMT
I try really hard to separate the artist from the music. For example, I'm not a fan of Bruce Springsteen as a person but I love his music. With Jeff, I feel very torn. He's obviously a very funny man with a great sense of humor. Everyone from Tom Petty to George Harrison to Eric Idle has mentioned this at one time or another. But I think that he also possesses a very demanding personality, particularly in the studio. Tom Petty made reference to this. We all know that he's a perfectionist. I love his music and I always will. I do wish, however, that Jeff would acknowledge all the members of ELO over the years. Just compare ELO's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction to that of Roxy Music. Bryan Ferry went out of his way to thank all the former members of Roxy Music and even named each one. That was a classy thing to do. I do hope our guy will do something similar at some point, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
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