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Post by Timeblue on Aug 1, 2021 8:49:52 GMT
I try really hard to separate the artist from the music. For example, I'm not a fan of Bruce Springsteen as a person but I love his music. With Jeff, I feel very torn. He's obviously a very funny man with a great sense of humor. Everyone from Tom Petty to George Harrison to Eric Idle has mentioned this at one time or another. But I think that he also possesses a very demanding personality, particularly in the studio. Tom Petty made reference to this. We all know that he's a perfectionist. I love his music and I always will. I do wish, however, that Jeff would acknowledge all the members of ELO over the years. Just compare ELO's Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction to that of Roxy Music. Bryan Ferry went out of his way to thank all the former members of Roxy Music and even named each one. That was a classy thing to do. I do hope our guy will do something similar at some point, but I'm not going to hold my breath. My sentiments exactly...
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Post by janne on Aug 1, 2021 9:01:36 GMT
I think you have just described 90 percent of leading men and women in bands. Name anyone and they do things on THEIR terms. Someone has to steer the ship. Bands are not a democracy. You are right, but by "stubborn" I was talking not so much about band leadership but more about him not being able to get over his hard feelings for his old bandmates. Ok. I think it's connected. If Jeff thinks someone "threatens" the band, he puts his foot down. And then he possibly holds a grudge for a very long time...
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 1, 2021 16:42:59 GMT
I'd go further than to say he holds grudges. Jeff's approach is to firmly shut the door on anyone who he perceives as wronging him, which extends to doing whatever he can to erase their existence from the history of what is very much a collective, regardless of whether he's emphasising the "faceless group" or "one man band" narrative at any given point. With the use of both ELO and JLELO in recent promotions, along with the upcoming catalogue overhaul not extending to the first two albums, he's even demonstrated intent to draw a line that is perhaps the most worrying shift of the goalposts yet. By delineating July 1972 as when he assumed full control (knowing that Roy and Bev are no longer in a legal position to challenge this stance), he's clearly planning to build the 50th anniversary campaign around this being the true start of what he's come to advertise as Jeff Lynne's ELO. That remake of 10538 Overture that he released in 2012 was clearly intended as a way to reclaim whatever he thought was worth salvaging from this era, short of still performing Roll Over Beethoven because of how much that helped put ELO on the map.
Now, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with all this if he was also trying to correct people on what exactly ELO was in the first place. If there was some concerted effort to compare Jeff as the mere bandleader of something like the revolving door of an ensemble that takes its name from Glenn Miller, making ELO the next evolutionary step of that approach, I'm sure many would cut him a lot more slack. On the other hand, no matter how hard he tries, documentary evidence stands to confirm that ELO was an extension of The Move, itself a band with a clearly defined core of musicians and personnel that changed around this. Also, no matter how good his current touring line-up may be, to call these superior to personalities your average fan could at least name isn't just disingenuous, but unnecessarily hostile. Then again, is this something exclusive to ELO, or can you think of quite a few once tight-knit bands now ripped apart by the very same thing?
At every step along the way, we've seen quotes from various former members of ELO saying how they'd love nothing more than to just meet up with Jeff for a drink, a chat and to discuss their many achievements. By contrast, his method is to operate within an increasingly tightening circle of friends, burning all other bridges and leaving those who have apparently wronged him without as much as the air to let their voices be heard. For example, after years of trying to set the record straight while also exploiting loopholes from the frankly ridiculous gagging order he was hit with, Bev seems close to finally having a follow-up to his 1980 book on shelves, though I just know it will have been whitewashed to such a degree that any ELO activity will pick up around the time of his first effort's release, and there's absolutely no way he's being allowed to give what will amount to one side of the story covering a period when this once seemingly united group very quickly drifted apart, often with the terms of separation requiring lawyers to be present.
Friends? Colleagues? No, I'd argue that for the longest time, those in ELO who weren't named during their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and didn't have co-founder status - whether Jeff likes that or not - were simply means to an end. As technology improved and he was able to bring in proven session players who didn't ask for anything more than just the privilege to share a stage with someone who loves nothing more than to call every shot where possible, Jeff found that he didn't need ELO. Furthermore, and I'm certainly not knocking him for his, he learned that the reason this name even endures over his own is because of the input that he primarily invested. While I'd naturally prefer to see some kind of reconciliation and acknowledgement before we lost any more key contributors that got him to this place, my head overrules my heart to tell me that's unlikely at this point. With that, I'll be grateful for whatever he still offers us.
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 1, 2021 16:58:07 GMT
Thanks, a well written article.
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Post by Helmut83 on Aug 1, 2021 22:16:45 GMT
You are right, but by "stubborn" I was talking not so much about band leadership but more about him not being able to get over his hard feelings for his old bandmates. Ok. I think it's connected. If Jeff thinks someone "threatens" the band, he puts his foot down. And then he possibly holds a grudge for a very long time... Yes, sounds reasonable. Could be two different manifestations of the same personality trait.
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cg
Junior Member
Posts: 30
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Post by cg on Aug 5, 2021 15:00:28 GMT
Now, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with all this if he was also trying to correct people on what exactly ELO was in the first place. If there was some concerted effort to compare Jeff as the mere bandleader of something like the revolving door of an ensemble that takes its name from Glenn Miller, making ELO the next evolutionary step of that approach, I'm sure many would cut him a lot more slack. ShardEnder - can you expand on how ELO got it's name from Glenn Miller?
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 5, 2021 15:12:41 GMT
I'm not saying that it did, but equating how Jeff thinks of himself as the named leader of a band rather than ELO being a more clearly defined group in the modern sense. While it's too early to make such a suggestion, I wouldn't be surprised if "Jeff Lynne's ELO" continues on as a touring entity long after Jeff himself isn't part of this, similar to how many other name-led bands continue to operate.
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Post by jackpunch on Aug 5, 2021 15:21:06 GMT
I'm not saying that it did, but equating how Jeff thinks of himself as the named leader of a band rather than ELO being a more clearly defined group in the modern sense. While it's too early to make such a suggestion, I wouldn't be surprised if "Jeff Lynne's ELO" continues on as a touring entity long after Jeff himself isn't part of this, similar to how many other name-led bands continue to operate. I really can't see that. Mind it would be somewhat ironic.....didnt want Bev and Kelly to use the ELO name as he wanted to make it clear he wasn't involved, but would be happy to have his name on the front of the band despite not being there.
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 5, 2021 15:30:00 GMT
At the time Bev first proposed continuing on under the ELO name, which he was legally entitled to do as a 50% stakeholder, Kelly was still unable to trade on his previous association with the band as a result of his October 1983 settlement, though terms were renegotiated a decade later so that he could join Part II in the studio, allowing him just enough time to make a few last minute contributions to Moment Of Truth. Originally, the plan had been for Bev's new group to record and perform as Afterglow, only Jeff then used that as the title for what became ELO's first career-spanning retrospective.
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 5, 2021 16:04:18 GMT
At the time Bev first proposed continuing on under the ELO name, which he was legally entitled to do as a 50% stakeholder, Kelly was still unable to trade on his previous association with the band as a result of his October 1983 settlement, though terms were renegotiated a decade later so that he could join Part II in the studio, allowing him just enough time to make a few last minute contributions to Moment Of Truth. Originally, the plan had been for Bev's new group to record and perform as Afterglow, only Jeff then used that as the title for what became ELO's first career-spanning retrospective. I didn't know that, to me that again shows Jeff in a bad light.....
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Post by moon on Nov 14, 2021 0:42:38 GMT
Honestly, it's hard to keep apart music from person, but you won't stop loving a band because of a member. As a musician, Jeff is fantastic. Original, creative, wonderful! As a person, maybe he could be less cold-hearted and accept that he was not alone on the band. BUT, but, I won't stop loving ELO because of Jeff's behaviour...Rick Davies and Roger Hodgson never went back again to play as Supertramp, but I loved, love and will love Supertramp's music forever. Same goes with ELO, if you love music, you will love the music. What I never liked, is the threatment to the past members who are gone. Kelly, Wilfred, Mike Edwards, Hugh...they never received at least a "Goodbye" from the official accounts...When Astro died recently, UB40 dedicated a post for him even when he was not a band member anymore...When Fritz McIntyre died, the official accounts of Simply Red dedicated some words for him too...Only to give some examples. Was it that hard for Jeff?? Anyway, I love ELO's music, and Jeff Lynne's ELO songs too!! But there's things about behaviour that we can discuss...And things that happen in lot of other bands I guess!!
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