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Post by PowWow on Jan 4, 2017 0:38:08 GMT
It's not as well known as their 70's cuts and often overshadowed by it's two predecessors Time and Secret Messages but I think it deserves revaluation now it's over 30 years since it's debut. So I like to hear your thoughts on the subject.
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Post by Helmut83 on Jan 4, 2017 3:58:11 GMT
Secret Messages has a few rabid fans here and maybe they will see this as a sacrilege, but in my opinion Balance of Power is as good as Secret Messages (and of course none of them can hold a candle to Time). Heck, if I had to choose one of them I'd go for Balance of Power. I think it's far from being a wonder but it might be a bit underrated.
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Post by IvanDSM on Jan 4, 2017 6:14:48 GMT
Balance of Power is a very good album. Getting into it, I thought it was gonna be terrible, but turns out only Calling America is a 'meh' track. The rest are surprisingly solid. Also, even though the 2007 remaster sounds awful, the early version of Heaven Only Knows included on it is a very nice look inside what was going in Jeff's mind after the whole Secret Messages ordeal. I like both that and the released version a lot. I think I'd give BoP a 6/10. EDIT: Also hoping ShardEnder will drop us a knowledge bomb in this thread (that is, if he is able to without telling us too much about what's in the book!).
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Post by solmaker on Jan 4, 2017 8:14:51 GMT
All of ELO's albums are under-rated. :^) So seriously, I've always loved "Getting to the Point"... one of Lynne's most moving productions.
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Post by Helmut83 on Jan 4, 2017 16:57:30 GMT
All of ELO's albums are under-rated. :^) So seriously, I've always loved "Getting to the Point"... one's of Lynne's most moving productions. More than the production, I'd say it's one of his most moving compositions. The production is accesory to it.
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Post by PowWow on Jan 4, 2017 17:21:30 GMT
What I didn't notice about BOP until the listened to the 2007 remaster the other day is how much reverb has been applied to various songs. quite a stylistic change compared to OOTB or Discovery.
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Post by jackpunch on Jan 4, 2017 21:38:53 GMT
Endless Lies, Secret Lives and Bend it, Mend it, Send it, Bin it are unlistenable for me. Not overly keen on the twee So Serious but the rest are very decent.
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Post by hoyosenr on Jan 4, 2017 23:48:49 GMT
Yes, to this humble fan, it is of sure. But I can perfectly remember my first impressions. I admit that all of them were a bit downhearted.
First, I bumped into the album by chance when browsing vinyls on a shop around early 1987: that was the "terrific" promotion the album had had in Spain. A huge fan like me was totally unaware of it for many months.
Then, checking the artworks to find that Kelly had vanished brought no good spirits. Not to mention the trio outfits on the picture, which were so stridently eightyish that moved to laugh even yet immersed in that decade, therefore not supposed to be so conscious about it.
Going to the first listening……here we had a Spartan album, song after song just sequenced with the standard industry gap. A small difference compared to most previous albums, with all those atmospheric openings and ambient effects in between songs, which led to a great emotional impact. And some songwriting seemed at first sight too obvious: I can recall my sense of incredulity at the solo in Calling America: predictable, expected, naive….And well, all those drum machines, they were already present in Time and Secret Messages, but suddenly they sounded too upfront.…. But….this album has something that made me liking more and more with repeated listening.
So serious looks so charming……yes, it may remind us of The Cars….but maybe improved Cars!!! Getting to the point is a wonderful power ballad, a terrific piece of work worth of ranking among the best of its kind… Sorrow about to fall and Without Someone are moody, suggestive and convey with great precision the lyrical content…..This is one of the album main highlights, the lyrics are really much better than usual….deep, meaningful. And generally speaking, the songs are full of infectious licks and, in this aspect, more connected with the usual ELO output than, say, the former Secret Messages. Curious that the song that I liked least, Endless lies, comes really from this album’s sessions. Which of course I learnt some years later.
Yes, Balance of Power was a difficult gulp to digest at the moment. But it has something connected with all that I tried to express above that makes me liking more than many other ELO albums, except Time and…….and……..which one else?
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Post by wolvesgirlgonewild on Jan 5, 2017 0:18:34 GMT
Well I'm one of those people who likes ELO's later stuff the most. I like Balance of Power, it's one of the ELO albums I put on a lot. Alongside Secret Messages and Time. It's not as good as Time but songs like So Serious, Getting to The Point, Endless Lies are in my opinion some of ELO's best songs. Especially Getting to the Point. I do wonder whether Bev did any drumming on that album considering the drums on the album, sound like drum tracks as opposed to a sound from an actual drum kit. It's not one of ELO's best but it's still a good album
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Post by janne on Jan 5, 2017 12:34:16 GMT
I don't agree that BoP is underrated. You can hear that Jeff would rather pack it in, than keep on going with ELO. There are some decent tunes, but I very seldom revisit BoP.
I actually think the Xanadu tracks are somewhat underrated, as I remember it that album was seen as a joke back in the day.
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Post by elophile on Jan 5, 2017 14:07:22 GMT
I don't agree that BoP is underrated. You can hear that Jeff would rather pack it in, than keep on going with ELO. I agree with you. I'll add that feel like I can hear in the songs that Jeff was depressed when he wrote them. Just my take.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 5, 2017 15:59:34 GMT
Here's a suggestion: try replacing Heaven Only Knows with the alternate version, drop Endless Lies then switch out Send It for Caught In A Trap and Destination Unknown. Now you have a much darker "Balance Of Payments" that more accurately reflects how miserable Jeff was in his personal and professional life by the mid-1980s! As for Bev's drumming on this album, those booming fills during Getting To The Point were definitely played live, as was his triggered snare work throughout Send It. According to my notes, Bev was playing brushes in the main studio room while Jeff kept rhythm on a guitar from the control desk, this whole experiment intended as a way of boosting group morale. Despite the fantastic weather in Nassau, spirits were less than high at Compass Point, and after six weeks of working there, Jeff chose to relocate to somewhere with the same SSL technology because he was tired of progress being slowed down by technical issues. Finally settling back in a cold Germany again, now with Tom Thiel taking over from Bill Bottrell, who had prior commitments, the core trio of ELO then reunited with Mack for the lengthy remixing process once CBS rejected Jeff's initially submitted master for being too negative lyrically and musically sterile. Originally consulted for just his opinion, Mack helped shape Balance Of Power into the final statement we all know (and love?), one of his biggest contributions being that he introduced Richard to an early Kurzweil digital piano with such great-sounding string patches that Jeff agreed this could be the first ELO album not to feature real orchestration. Indeed, he wrote Getting To The Point there and then in order to showcase the capabilities of this particular keyboard.
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Post by pelo on Jan 5, 2017 16:43:18 GMT
In my opinion BOP is a brilliant album. I've written extensively about the sessions in my book "Eldorado", which you can still buy at amazon.de (Eldorado Pt 2 covering the period from 1986-2015 is also available)
Most of the information Shardender mentions is taken from an interview I did with Tom Thiel and which was published in oour German fanzine. Mack told me that - contrary to what most sources state - the complete album remix was finished by the end of April 1985. He didn't tell me about that Kurzweil piano though. Where does this bit come from, Shardender?
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 5, 2017 18:04:18 GMT
I've normally been quite reluctant to disclose sources for information ahead of releasing the finished book (especially where my publisher's legal team has yet to fully clear parts where the historic actions of former ELO members are described), but a lot of my technical know-how for what exactly was used during the Balance Of Power sessions came via Richard Tandy, mostly through archived pages of his old website, old print interviews and some points even being sent to me from a kind person who asked him a few questions on my behalf. The one keyboard I've not been able to conclusively identify so far is the exact model of Fairlight CMI, which isn't helped by the album's liner notes being quite vague, typically for an ELO release and likely because Jeff didn't want all of his production secrets made public. However, what I will reveal as a teaser is that he utilised no less than three different methods to achieve the uncharacteristically heavy reverb that you hear on Getting To The Point in particular, his reason for taking such a direction supposedly the result of him lacking vocal confidence around this period. Mack recalled Jeff driving everyone else crazy by spending months to continually retake his leads, even when they couldn't tell why he was so unhappy with the original results. Curiously, Richard doesn't remember there being a Fairlight on Balance Of Power, yet there definitely was one and a Synclavier, even if only the latter was mentioned in the credits. I could say a lot more, but at the same time I'm desperate to keep something for my book. Saying that, there definitely was a Fairlight involved, since the very same keyboard was used by Mack on at least two other confirmed projects in this era - The Works and A Kind Of Magic by Queen.
P.S. Louis Clark remembers Jeff mockingly being quite upset when Mack wouldn't let ELO tour with his facility's Kurzweil digital piano, as it was something everyone agreed had the best string sounds available back then. In his autobiography, Dave Morgan gave a fascinating account of what happened when Lou took delivery of a prototype E-mu Emulator III while the group was rehearsing at the London-based Nomis complex, this cutting edge synthesiser being good enough that they were finally able to stop using a tape for the string introduction to Roll Over Beethoven, which only ended up being needed for their final German shows. Until that point, Jeff still wasn't convinced by the quality of synthesised strings, although a bank of keyboards had been played between three auxiliary musicians ever since the Time Tour for this very purpose. With a lot of hard work, I've been able to find out what each one of those was, so hopefully enthusiasts with deeper pockets will be able to use my book as a guide to replicating the exact sounds of ELO from 1981-1986 in both the studio and on stage!
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Post by IvanDSM on Jan 5, 2017 19:09:24 GMT
What I didn't notice about BOP until the listened to the 2007 remaster the other day is how much reverb has been applied to various songs. quite a stylistic change compared to OOTB or Discovery. Don't trust the 2007 remaster, it is very badly compressed and sounds terrible. ShardEnder , thanks for the reordering tip and details on the album's creation! Hope to see your book soon! pelo, would love to see an English version of your book as well! It seems like an interesting read!
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