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Post by PowWow on Jan 5, 2017 19:20:41 GMT
But it's the only version I can afford
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Post by soonerorlater on Jan 6, 2017 12:47:00 GMT
I think it's underrated as an 'Eighties' album (compared to so many of its contemporaries) but I don't particularly think that it's underrated as an ELO album. Would anyone recommend it as a first listen to someone who wants to be introduced to Jeff's music? Would they see what all the fuss is about?
I was so looking forward to it at the time. A great lead single in Calling America, great non-album B sides on the 12" and all seemed set for a fabulous album. It all fell a little flat then and I think that the middle four songs in particular are just so average for someone of Jeff's standing.
I will go out on a limb and say that I've always felt that the stand out track by some distance is Endless Lies and the BoP version is easily superior to the Secret Messages original that we would subsequently hear. I know many of you won't really agree with that!.....
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Post by solmaker on Jan 8, 2017 5:21:16 GMT
More than the production, I'd say ["Getting to the Point"] one of his most moving compositions. The production is accesory to it. Well put... I agree the composition is key. But the whole production (including the almost-Springsteen-esque horn solo) is unusually emotional for an ELO tune.
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Post by ash2 on Jan 9, 2017 7:41:29 GMT
I think the problem with BOP is the songs are not very good.... From ELO I all the way up to Secret Messages Jeff put something in his albums...that goosebumps moment BOP is just a clump of synthy songs to end a contract...and it sounds like it. Heaven only knows,Endless Lies,Secret Shite,Send it....all of em rubbish, there is no love in those songs. Not a fan
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Post by elophile on Jan 9, 2017 23:49:26 GMT
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Post by Timeblue on Jan 10, 2017 11:22:49 GMT
I think the problem with BOP is the songs are not very good.... From ELO I all the way up to Secret Messages Jeff put something in his albums...that goosebumps moment BOP is just a clump of synthy songs to end a contract...and it sounds like it. Heaven only knows,Endless Lies,Secret Shite,Send it....all of em rubbish, there is no love in those songs. Not a fan You're not sitting on the fence with this are you?
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Post by ash2 on Jan 16, 2017 19:31:32 GMT
I think the problem with BOP is the songs are not very good.... From ELO I all the way up to Secret Messages Jeff put something in his albums...that goosebumps moment BOP is just a clump of synthy songs to end a contract...and it sounds like it. Heaven only knows,Endless Lies,Secret Shite,Send it....all of em rubbish, there is no love in those songs. Not a fan You're not sitting on the fence with this are you? I could go on..... This is an album by the guy that did Out of the Blue , Time , Secret Messages , A New world Record and Eldorado so clumping ten songs with just the standard three second gap is not what ELO is about , they were different. Heaven Only Knows - This song is not finished , no bridge , a woooo everywhere in the background and a chorus that has too many words in it. 2/10 So Serious - Not bad...good little rocker and has a fire extinguisher in it (Bev plays it) should have opened the album with this. 6/10 Getting to the Point - between this and Calling America , the best songs on the album (very good AND you get the megamix on the 12'' ) 9/10(I remember getting this album on the day of release in the uk and only when we got to this song I thought "At last" good layering of vocals) Secret Lives - Do I need to say anything about this....it's like a Debbie Gibson song 0/10Is it Alright - it's just a bog standard song....where is the ELO magic, again too many synths and not enough strings (Jeff might not mind if violins don't play but I do.) 4/10Sorrow About to Fall - he uses a sax...end of discussion. 1/10Without Someone - not a bad little balled but again it feels like a reject track (like Mandalay) Calling America - Now this is more like it , love this song 10/10 Endless Lies - now this is a homage to Roy Orbison....WHY if I want to listen to Roy Orbison.....don't like it 4/10 Send It - oh look a rockabilly outro, that's new....NOT (my album had a scratch and it would jump to the end and pick up....I didn't mind. 2/10 The covers horrid, the sound is very dated now , compare this to TIME so compared to ELO's other albums BOP IMO has to be there worst.
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Post by hoyosenr on Jan 17, 2017 11:41:41 GMT
You're not sitting on the fence with this are you? I could go on..... This is an album by the guy that did Out of the Blue , Time , Secret Messages , A New world Record and Eldorado so clumping ten songs with just the standard three second gap is not what ELO is about , they were different. Heaven Only Knows - This song is not finished , no bridge , a woooo everywhere in the background and a chorus that has too many words in it. 2/10 So Serious - Not bad...good little rocker and has a fire extinguisher in it (Bev plays it) should have opened the album with this. 6/10 Getting to the Point - between this and Calling America , the best songs on the album (very good AND you get the megamix on the 12'' ) 9/10(I remember getting this album on the day of release in the uk and only when we got to this song I thought "At last" good layering of vocals) Secret Lives - Do I need to say anything about this....it's like a Debbie Gibson song 0/10Is it Alright - it's just a bog standard song....where is the ELO magic, again too many synths and not enough strings (Jeff might not mind if violins don't play but I do.) 4/10Sorrow About to Fall - he uses a sax...end of discussion. 1/10Without Someone - not a bad little balled but again it feels like a reject track (like Mandalay) Calling America - Now this is more like it , love this song 10/10 Endless Lies - now this is a homage to Roy Orbison....WHY if I want to listen to Roy Orbison.....don't like it 4/10 Send It - oh look a rockabilly outro, that's new....NOT (my album had a scratch and it would jump to the end and pick up....I didn't mind. 2/10 The covers horrid, the sound is very dated now , compare this to TIME so compared to ELO's other albums BOP IMO has to be there worst. I found this post really interesting, though I don't fully agree. I agree that the album line-up with no effects and standard gap between songs is sort of a deception. I also agree that I don't see this record as the one with ELO's highest songwriting quality, I would give this prize to TIME. And I also understand the deception about the production, especially for those adoring that concept saying that ELO should, must, and have got to have always great real string arrangements. I've always liked artists who take risks. Even if I don't like the results, I firmly believe this is the only way to advance, grow, and prevent from getting bored of yourself. ELO is not a bad example of this. From Xanadu onwards, ELO (maybe Jeff....) tried to move away from the "light orchestra concept". Well, even in Discovery, with Don't Bring me Down... In my opinion, the sound change in Time was a good result. Secret Messages was another trial of making things different, but for me with a bad result: though the sound is really great, I found it too "forced", drum machines too obvious, and except for a couple of tracks really uninspired in terms of songwriting virtues. With Balance of Power, the approach changes again. The level of songwriting is better than in Secret Messages (Getting to the point, Calling America, So serious......we didn't have such stuff over there). The lyrics are probably among the best of ELO'S catalogue. And....yes...there are saxes....why not? And well, I think that Without Someone is much much better than Mandalay (which rewrites, to worse, McArthur Park by the way....) The big mystery is the final line-up. Why Heaven only knows (that only might seemed not finished, since it was deeply re-made....) was not issued in the bonus-track version, thus including an atmospherical start for the album? Why Secret Lives was not issued as the bonus-track version, much more attractive I guess? Why Caught in a Trap, or In for the Kill, was not included in the album instead of any of the weaker tracks? I expect that the book that Shard Ender is writing may answer some of these questions. Just to finish, and turning back to the musical quality subject, I recently listen carefully Out of the blue.....we all are used to criticize the quality of the songs in BoP, but what about some songs of this album? Starlight, Jungle, Believe me now, The Whale, Birmingham Blues......Are they really better than most of the songs in Balance of Power?
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Post by ash2 on Jan 17, 2017 17:52:11 GMT
Yes lol of course if you like Balance of power then good for you, I have no problem with that but ELO to me are more than some pop band, it's the sound and the lyrics and the production and yes it's the strings (love me some cello) I like how Jeff could write sad songs , Out of the Blue , Time , Secrete Messages are sad albums lyrically , BOP sounds bitter and angry same with Zoom so when I listen to Time I am taken on a journey of sadness and pain but at the end I am told to Hold on tight to my dreams with Out of the Blue we have a whole side dedicated to the sadness of rain all interwoven until the uplifting Mr Blue Sky kicks in wonderful stuff BOP......sigh. But hey it's a 30 year old album, I still like three songs on there (and I do like caught in a trap )
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 17, 2017 20:04:53 GMT
To answer one of the questions asked earlier, CBS ordered Jeff to remove both Caught In A Trap and Destination Unknown from Balance Of Power, which is how Send It came to close that album. As for the early version of Heaven Only Knows and In For The Kill, these were never serious contenders, having been replaced with their final counterparts during the recording process for reasons only Jeff could explain. However, there is a possible clue - did he change the lyrics to In For The Kill because of this originally describing the abandoned Secret Messages "handshake" design, being a further leftover from those sessions (along with Endless Lies, which he only remixed to avoid paying Dave Morgan for his vocal contributions made back in 1982)? Speaking of unused ELO covers, Time and Rock 'N' Roll Is King also nearly had very different sleeves, but I don't want to give away too much at this stage...
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Post by hoyosenr on Jan 18, 2017 11:46:48 GMT
To answer one of the questions asked earlier, CBS ordered Jeff to remove both Caught In A Trap and Destination Unknown from Balance Of Power, which is how Send It came to close that album. As for the early version of Heaven Only Knows and In For The Kill, these were never serious contenders, having been replaced with their final counterparts during the recording process for reasons only Jeff could explain. However, there is a possible clue - did he change the lyrics to In For The Kill because of this originally describing the abandoned Secret Messages "handshake" design, being a further leftover from those sessions (along with Endless Lies, which he only remixed to avoid paying Dave Morgan for his vocal contributions made back in 1982)? Speaking of unused ELO covers, Time and Rock 'N' Roll Is King also nearly had very different sleeves, but I don't want to give away too much at this stage... Thanks ShardEnder, I am one of those ELO fans anxious to read your book. Balance of Power somewhat astonished me when it was issued, because of all the changes included: one (very liked) member less, Spartan line-up with no effects and standard gap, simplistic artwork absolutely unconnected with all the previous ones, saxes for first time, some naïve musical input (Callling America middle solo is a tremendous example)....etc. Talking about naivety, let's go to that of my own. Even today I find amazing that the record brand (CBS in this case) had so much power over a superstar band as to force in that way an artistic manipulation of the contents of this album. The issue of the CD with all those revealing out-takes and bonus tracks both opened my eyes about this and even increased my surprise....
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 19, 2017 3:16:28 GMT
Your example of "naïve musical input" was actually Jeff giving a subtle nod to Telstar by The Tornados, which I've always felt tied in perfectly (not to mention almost certainly deliberately) with the satellite theme featured throughout Calling America... Richard also went on to play a more direct quotation from this pioneering early '60s instrumental hit as part of his keyboard solo during Roll Over Beethoven on the brief tour promoting Balance Of Power.
If you want a much better demonstration of 1985-era ELO truly coasting in autopilot, Secret Lives is massively overshadowed by the alternate take, which could almost be a lost power pop classic when compared directly with the final version! Saying that, quite a few of the mixes eventually used weren't a patch on their initial counterparts. Who honestly thought Heaven Only Knows worked after stripping out its atmospheric opening section, never mind the original having vastly superior lyrics and greater diversity in terms of production values?
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Post by IvanDSM on Jan 20, 2017 9:46:25 GMT
Heaven Only Knows - This song is not finished , no bridge , a woooo everywhere in the background and a chorus that has too many words in it. 2/10 I'll have to comment on this one. Are you sure the impression of "too many words in it" doesn't come from the time signature change in the chorus? It's actually in 7/4, pretty interesting for an 80s pop song.
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Post by hoyosenr on Jan 20, 2017 11:38:37 GMT
Your example of "naïve musical input" was actually Jeff giving a subtle nod to Telstar by The Tornados, which I've always felt tied in perfectly (not to mention almost certainly deliberately) with the satellite theme featured throughout Calling America... Richard also went on to play a more direct quotation from this pioneering early '60s instrumental hit as part of his keyboard solo during Roll Over Beethoven on the brief tour promoting Balance Of Power. If you want a much better demonstration of 1985-era ELO truly coasting in autopilot, Secret Lives is massively overshadowed by the alternate take, which could almost be a lost power pop classic when compared directly with the final version! Saying that, quite a few of the mixes eventually used weren't a patch on their initial counterparts. Who honestly thought Heaven Only Knows worked after stripping out its atmospheric opening section, never mind the original having vastly superior lyrics and greater diversity in terms of production values? Fantastic! Having listened to Telstar just some few times in my life I hadn't noticed the connection with Calling America. I very much agree about it. Secret lives was just OK to me when it came out, so twenty years later I was amazed at how much better the alternate track was (because this is not a remix I guess, this is a full re-make). And yes, Heaving only knows (whose final version I think it is the result of patching some re-recorded sections with some others from the initial one) should have remained in its original form. I can't understand this change/manipulation from CBS. If it was because of the lyrics "good job" in my opinion: at least for me, not being English my mother tongue, I never understood what the final version on BoP is about, but I do understand the alternate lyrics. Talking about nods.....I always thought that Secret lives issued version's piano licks were a nod to those similar on the opening theme of the US TV series "The greatest American hero", which was being broadcast just one year before the BoP sessions. And the nod of the nods.....So serious is borrowing so many things from The Cars' You Might Think that it is almost hilarious-delirious, I couldn't help to make this pun, sorry. Send it melody always remind me something, but honestly, I never bothered to spend time to find the source.
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Post by ash2 on Jan 20, 2017 16:51:55 GMT
Heaven Only Knows - This song is not finished , no bridge , a woooo everywhere in the background and a chorus that has too many words in it. 2/10 I'll have to comment on this one. Are you sure the impression of "too many words in it" doesn't come from the time signature change in the chorus? It's actually in 7/4, pretty interesting for an 80s pop song. Ahh well that will explain why it doesn't sound right...
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