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Post by pelo on Jan 21, 2017 18:16:51 GMT
Your example of "naïve musical input" was actually Jeff giving a subtle nod to Telstar by The Tornados, which I've always felt tied in perfectly (not to mention almost certainly deliberately) with the satellite theme featured throughout Calling America... Richard also went on to play a more direct quotation from this pioneering early '60s instrumental hit as part of his keyboard solo during Roll Over Beethoven on the brief tour promoting Balance Of Power. If you want a much better demonstration of 1985-era ELO truly coasting in autopilot, Secret Lives is massively overshadowed by the alternate take, which could almost be a lost power pop classic when compared directly with the final version! Saying that, quite a few of the mixes eventually used weren't a patch on their initial counterparts. Who honestly thought Heaven Only Knows worked after stripping out its atmospheric opening section, never mind the original having vastly superior lyrics and greater diversity in terms of production values? Fantastic! Having listened to Telstar just some few times in my life I hadn't noticed the connection with Calling America. I very much agree about it. I wrote about this in my book as well. By the way, I hate all this BOP bashing. In my opinion it's a great album. Heaven Only Knows 10/10 So Serious 10/10 Getting To The Point 10/10 Secret Lives 9/10 Is It Alright 10/10 Sorrow About To Fall 10/10 Without Someone 10/10 Calling America 10/10 Endless Lies 9/10 Send It 9/10 Caught In A Trap 10/10 (and my second favourite ELO song after Twilight) Destination Unknown 10/10 Matter Of Fact 10/10 Yes, it's not "Eldorado", but I like the fact that every ELO album has a distinct quality to it.
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Post by ash2 on Jan 22, 2017 13:31:54 GMT
By the way, I hate all this BOP bashing. In my opinion it's a great album. Heaven Only Knows 10/10 So Serious 10/10 Getting To The Point 10/10 Secret Lives 9/10 Is It Alright 10/10 Sorrow About To Fall 10/10 Without Someone 10/10 Calling America 10/10 Endless Lies 9/10 Send It 9/10 Caught In A Trap 10/10 (and my second favourite ELO song after Twilight) Destination Unknown 10/10 Matter Of Fact 10/10 Yes, it's not "Eldorado", but I like the fact that every ELO album has a distinct quality to it. It's not a case of "bashing" BOP it's having an opinion on one of ELO's albums I am glad you like it....but it's not to my liking.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 22, 2017 18:27:15 GMT
Here's my proposal for a vastly superior Balance Of Power:
A1 - Opening A2 - Heaven Only Knows [Alternate Version] A3 - So Serious A4 - Getting To The Point A5 - Secret Lives [Alternate Take] A6 - Is It Alright A7 - A Matter Of Fact B1 - Sorrow About To Fall B2 - Without Someone B3 - Calling America B4 - Caught In A Trap B5 - Destination Unknown B6 - Send It
B-sides: Heaven Only Knows [1986 Remix] Endless Lies [1986 Remix] Sorrow About To Fall [Alternate Mix] Secret Lives [1986 Remix] In For The Kill A Matter Of Fact [Alternate Lyrics Version]
I've only kept Send It as the final track to follow Jeff's template of ending every new ELO album going all the way back to Discovery with a more stripped-down upbeat song (assuming we can ignore the brief Epilogue on Time and the unlisted section that closed Secret Messages). Also, by releasing so many outtakes on singles, we can hopefully live in a parallel universe where the ELO Megamix never existed... Jeff didn't actually give his approval for that, and I'm sure he would have preferred it to use the master tapes rather than having whole parts sourced from audibly worn vinyl copies!
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Post by ash2 on Jan 22, 2017 20:24:47 GMT
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Post by hoyosenr on Jan 24, 2017 0:20:19 GMT
Yeah, that's not a matter of bashing, it is a matter of opinion and also of analysis. I do like Balance of Power, and I think that's visible reading my posts. I am glad that some other people like it even much more than I do, and I can live with the fact -and even understand- that some others don't like. I believe that all this stuff analysing the connections with Telstar, The Cars and etc. is interesting to learn what a musical mastermind as Jeff had in mind when doing those creations. And of course, for people liking music and liking ELO it is inevitable to think about the amazing outtakes and second thoughts involving this album.
ShardEnder revision of BoP line up works for me. And yes, it is better than the real thing. Even if Send it is at the very end, which I even sort of like it after my wife (not ELOfan at all) said it was a nice song. Jeff had all this pieces at his disposal but couldn't manage to issue something like that. Still amazing to me.
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Post by starlight on Feb 5, 2017 15:00:13 GMT
I recall Rob Caiger describing 5cds worth of alternative versions of the songs off BOP which he had been fortunate to hear whilst researching the 2007 remaster, I would love to hear those!
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 5, 2017 19:07:56 GMT
We know that at least one CDR of outtakes and alternate mixes from the Balance Of Power sessions found its way into the hands of a collector several years ago, but my understanding is that Rob Caiger then found a lot more previously unreleased material at some point between 2000 and 2007. I'm guessing at least one disc he mentioned will be the original version of this album before CBS insisted on the end result being made to be less negative lyrically, which led to the dropping of several controversial songs, as I've discussed before. Also, there are supposedly quite a few variations on Calling America, and I believe a few of the remaster bonus tracks were actually new creations partly assembled using vintage pieces that had been left incomplete back in 1986. For example, rather than simply being an early version, the upbeat take of Secret Lives was the result of turning up leftover parts that had previously been muted on the multitrack tapes, while the "religious" version of Heaven Only Knows is an edit of a vintage full length piece with a verse and bridge removed, plus its opening was faded in (though not well enough to completely begin from total silence).
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Post by ash2 on Feb 6, 2017 19:03:56 GMT
You see this is the kind of stuff I would buy...Anthology stuff with all the outtakes and different mixes on from Time to BOP there must be tons of stuff on the shelves but noooooo lets release a greatest hits album again.
is it true that the master tapes for OOTB are missing?
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 6, 2017 21:27:16 GMT
Sadly, the masters for Out Of The Blue were missing as early as 1998, which explains why Sony wasn't able to release a planned reissue of this album from the original tapes for its 20th anniversary the previous year - they're now stuck using a quite audibly damaged stereo safety tape, but at least this has since been digitally transferred and repaired to a degree.
As for outtakes, Rob Caiger personally compiled quite the wealth of potential bonus tracks for the 2001-7 remastering campaign, only for Jeff to audition then ultimately veto some of the more ambitious selections in favour of an approach that is best described as playing it very safe compared to what could have seen the light of day.
While the absence of Beatles Forever on the 2001 version of Secret Messages is at least partly logical if you agree with Jeff's view that it's simply an initial idea for what eventually became Video! a few years later, there were no similar excuses for Mandalay, Hello My Old Friend especially or even Buildings Have Eyes, the latter previously surfacing as a b-side.
Also, by including leftovers from the Wisseloord sessions like Grieg's Piano Concerto In A Minor, Tears In Your Life, Helpless, Who's That and the extended mix of After All on Flashback, it's almost as if Jeff didn't want to commit to a single package containing all the various additional material that could have theoretically made a fantastic Deluxe Edition of Secret Messages.
To end with a very quick tease, there isn't actually much recorded for Time that wasn't used outside that preliminary mix of Hold On Tight with a short instrumental opening section or mixes for the album's singles, most just the LP versions faded to remove segues. On the other hand, Jeff did say that he recorded The Way Life's Meant To Be in several locations around Europe, so...
If Jeff's own reservations about opening the vaults didn't upset you enough, it's claimed that Craig Fruin is the one responsible for splitting what does get out across various titles rather than comprising an Anthology type package. Indeed, the only reason why The Move received this treatment is because Rob had a vision Jeff and Craig weren't able to entirely shoot down.
Jeff naturally has a lot more control over the back catalogues of both ELO and The Idle Race, whose own 5CD retrospective was completed by Rob before higher up interference forced it back into just being a rejected proposal, though it's also believed there were issues with the quality of certain BBC Radio performances only available on transcription discs.
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Post by orangefiltersky on Feb 7, 2017 18:04:17 GMT
... the "religious" version of Heaven Only Knows is an edit of a vintage full length piece with a verse and bridge removed, plus its opening was faded in (though not well enough to completely begin from total silence). I`d really love to listen to this full length version. The "religious version" of Heaven Only Knows is my fav track on the whole reissue of BoP, it`s quite unusual lyricwise for JL (which I love), but the piece is only 2:30 long. Why did JL edit a bonus track? Why couldn`t he give us the whole thing?
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Post by orangefiltersky on Feb 7, 2017 18:14:38 GMT
While the absence of Beatles Forever on the 2001 version of Secret Messages is at least partly logical if you agree with Jeff's view that it's simply an initial idea for what eventually became Video! a few years later ... I`m a bit puzzled, because I don`t hear any similarities between "Beatles Forever" and "Video". So in which way is the song mentioned first the "initial idea" for the latter? And when and where did JL actually say that?
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 7, 2017 21:13:25 GMT
I'm not sure why the alternate version of Heaven Only Knows was edited, though it should be noted that Jeff supposedly frustrated quite a few people by wiping several lead vocals everyone around him felt were perfectly good enough in the first place during the creation of its parent album, so maybe the full length track is another case where he was second guessing his own abilities (which is also why he started using so much digital reverb around this period)? Whatever the reason, at least we know exactly what ended up being taken out...
To answer your second question, it was the chorus of Beatles Forever - or specifically its instrumental backing - Jeff later recycled for Video!, where it returned immediately following the second and third repeats of that song's chorus. While I don't ever recall him spelling out this connection, he clearly salvaged what he felt was the best idea from the earlier track, just as Tears In Your Life became After All, Sirens then finally Night Calls before the arrival of Pro Tools meant he could finish the original idea to his satisfaction.
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Post by orangefiltersky on Feb 8, 2017 14:07:21 GMT
I'm not sure why the alternate version of Heaven Only Knows was edited, though it should be noted that Jeff supposedly frustrated quite a few people by wiping several lead vocals everyone around him felt were perfectly good enough in the first place during the creation of its parent album, so maybe the full length track is another case where he was second guessing his own abilities (which is also why he started using so much digital reverb around this period)? Whatever the reason, at least we know exactly what ended up being taken out... To answer your second question, it was the chorus of Beatles Forever - or specifically its instrumental backing - Jeff later recycled for Video!, where it returned immediately following the second and third repeats of that song's chorus. While I don't ever recall him spelling out this connection, he clearly salvaged what he felt was the best idea from the earlier track, just as Tears In Your Life became After All, Sirens then finally Night Calls before the arrival of Pro Tools meant he could finish the original idea to his satisfaction. I really admire your profound knowledge about all things E.L.O., ShardEnder. It`s incredible how much you have found out about the 80es records of Jeff Lynne (and how much I have learned through your many posts about one of my fav bands). Your posts are always fantastic and a fun read. It`s unbelievable how much was going on behind the scenes and I didn`t know any of these things, although I`m an ardent follower of the band and JL for so long now. I just felt I have to say this.
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Post by eloneen on Apr 12, 2017 17:18:37 GMT
I purchased the 11 album Classic Albums boxed set a few months ago, and after binge listening to all of my old favorites from Eldorado to Out of the Blue, I've been giving each of the others a "deep listen" one at a time, and I have landed on Balance of Power.
Balance of Power is a mixed bag for me. Some of it is great; some of it is pretty good; some of the choices seemed puzzling to me; some cuts just seemed "meh;" and others struck me as utterly unoriginal. "Getting to the Point" is my hands-down favorite. It drew me in and wouldn't let go of me! I think it's one of the best ELO ballads ever. I love it! What an absolutely beautiful, unbelievably sad song! "Telephone Line" will always be my favorite in this category, but this one may knock "Big Wheels" out of second place. I didn't like "Endless Lies" at first, but it grew on me. Although I enjoy both versions, I prefer the Secret Messages version, especially the bridge. Strong, bitter, with good vocals. JL does that well! For "Heaven Only Knows," I generally like the alternate version better. The alternate lyrics are far superior, and the falsetto background vocals on the standard version are a little too sweet for the song, in my opinion. (It ends up sounding like it could be the theme song for a fun sitcom.) In the alternate version, the opening lines from the Lord's Prayer remind me a little of the beginning of Prince's "Let's Go Crazy," which begins with "Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today..." with the atmospheric background. I actually like "Send It." While the lyrics are certainly not positive, the upbeat, fun tune is a much needed change from the heaviness and darkness of the rest of the album. I feel the same way about "Calling America," and I also like all the shots of Paris in the video. "So Serious" sounds too much like The Cars, as others have already noted. It's fun, it's OK, but definitely not a favorite. "Secret Lives" has some features of early 1980s material from Hall and Oates (whom I also like), especially the keyboards and the vocals. Basically, it sounds like it could be a filler track on the Voices album. However, it doesn't sound quite right coming from ELO. It seems a bit forced. The rest of the album for me is kind of "meh." Some of it may grow on me with time and repeated listening, the way "Endless Lies" did. I've got a road trip coming up where I can do some more deep listening in the car, so we'll see!
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