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Post by babyzoomer on Aug 19, 2017 22:14:44 GMT
babyzoomer Wow. I was able to click on the link and see the video on Facebook. It was slow and choppy, so I did not watch all of it, but it went straight to it. I wonder what's going on? The interweb in Oz consists of 2 men in a tin shed somewhere, occasionally banging rocks together; that's one problem - however (in this case) it appears that customers outside the USA (or maybe just us in Oz) cannot access that video. Happens all the time. From my end, it's impossible to tell.
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Post by bluey on Aug 19, 2017 22:26:13 GMT
Alone in the Universe was a Jeff Lynne solo album which was badged as "Jeff Lynne's ELO", it can hardly be described as an ELO album. ELO ceased to be as a band after the "Discovery" album and the culling of the string section.
Was it ever a band? I wouldn't say so. If those musicians (Bev, Kelly, Richard, Mik, etc...) wouldn't have been there for live performances Jeff would have just hired others and everything would have been pretty much the same, except for different voices doing the backing vocals. We wouldn't have missed a single song, as Jeff wrote them all. For me all of the albums could have been badged as Jeff Lynne solo albums, "Electric Light Orchestra", "Jeff Lynne's ELO"... it wouldn't have made much difference regarding the practical aspects. I agree with you Helmut83,
The Electric Light Orchestra name was just a vehicle for Jeff Lynne's music, he could have sacked the UK band members at any time if he wished. When touring the USA he could have hired a bunch of American musicians from each State that he played in.
Lynne's version of ELO was totally different to Roy Wood's original conception of the band. Wood was always reinventing himself and his music, Wood's idea of ELO was experimental Baroque and Roll, Lynne's was much more commercial with radio friendly tunes and catchy lyrical choruses. I wonder if Wood's "Wear a Fast Gun" on the "Wizzard Brew" album was originally written for ELO's proposed second album "The Lost Planet" which finally saw the light of day in 1973 as "The Electric Light Orchestra II". "Wear a Fast Gun" would have fitted seamlessly on the second ELO album. It took decades for it to be admitted that Wood had actually played Bass Guitar and Cello on "In Old England Town" and "From the Sun to the World" on ELO 2. "The Battle of Marston Moor (2nd July 1644)" is typical of Wood's experimentation with it's medieval sound. Under Wood's leadership ELO would have become a cult baroque band rather than the mainstream pop band that Lynne created.
The public realised that the 2001 version of ELO was little more than Lynne, Tandy and a host of session musicians, not the classic Electric Light Orchestra they wanted to see live.
As I see it, ELO was always Lynne and a host of session/hired musicians (Tandy included here). The only difference is the public got used to some of those musicians (employees really) and would be happy with their presence onstage and unhappy when one or more of them were missing.
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Post by BSJ on Aug 19, 2017 23:05:30 GMT
babyzoomer Wow. I was able to click on the link and see the video on Facebook. It was slow and choppy, so I did not watch all of it, but it went straight to it. I wonder what's going on? I was able to watch it too, but didn't watch all of it.
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Post by babyzoomer on Aug 20, 2017 0:22:10 GMT
Perhaps the final word on the merits of AITU (as if...) should be left to the charts; the album sold REALLY well in the UK, US etc - and even in Oz (where an album normally needs to feature Hos, Bros or Andre Rieu to sell well) it got to No.15 - without any real advertising effort.
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Post by janne on Aug 20, 2017 8:18:15 GMT
ELO album or Jeff solo album, there's no difference.
Alone in the Universe was a Jeff Lynne solo album which was badged as "Jeff Lynne's ELO", it can hardly be described as an ELO album. ELO ceased to be as a band after the "Discovery" album and the culling of the string section.
For part of the "Time" album they were a four-piece band, during the recording Lynne fired Kelly Groucutt over his royalties dispute. Lynne told Kelly he was just an employee like the rest of the band, Kelly's input to ELO helped to give the band it's classic sound, his vocals perfectly complemented Lynne's. As we all know Kelly sued Lynne, it was settled out of court for a reported £300K compensation going to Kelly. The rest of the "Time" album was completed as a trio of Lynne, Bevan and Tandy.
This trio now condensed to ELO made the 1986 "Balance of Power" album, the touring lineup for that album was filled with temporary employees, Mik Kaminski, Louis Clark, Dave Morgan and Martin Smith.
Leap forward to 2001, the "Zoom" album was made as a Jeff Lynne and friends project posing as Electric Light Orchestra, Lynne planned a worldwide tour to promote "Zoom", the tour was cancelled due to poor ticket sales. This was a shadow of the Electric Light Orchestra of 1978 which was the biggest grossing band in the world that year. The public realised that the 2001 version of ELO was little more than Lynne, Tandy and a host of session musicians, not the classic Electric Light Orchestra they wanted to see live.
Lynne's ex-employees fared better in the form of ELO Part 2 and The Orchestra, they toured around the globe for many years selling out in stadiums and concert halls to millions of ELO fans. Lynne tried unsuccessfully to stop them from using his songs and "Orchestra" name. ELO part 2's "Moment of Truth" is one of my favourite albums in my collection, a great collection of well written and well performed songs.
Fast forward another fourteen years to 2015, Jeff Lynne's ELO as it's now known release the album "Alone in the Universe". I can understand why Lynne used the word alone as this wasn't an ELO album at all, it's a Jeff Lynne solo album. I bought this cd when it was released, I wish I hadn't, I don't see the point of it and I've never played it all the way through. It's a collection of self indulgent songs hailing back to Lynne's dim and distant past.
Getting back to the subject matter, whatever Jeff Lynne releases, it will be a Jeff Lynne not an Electric Light Orchestra album. Lynne's so called ex-employees made the Electric Light Orchestra what it was in the 1970's, yes Lynne wrote the songs, but without the rest of the bands input it wouldn't have been as successful as it was.
This is my opinion, I know many of you won't agree with my comments, but we do live in a democracy, don't we?
Jeff Lynne will be 70 on 30th of December, shouldn't he be taking it easy and thinking about retirement? All the relevant points regarding is it ELO or just a solo effort have been covered many times on here. So what? Does this mean we shall put a lid on it now? I think the discussion is interesting. Jeff Lynne's ELO might be a solo project now, but if you read some of the old books (Bev's, mostly) you do get the feeling that ELO indeed WAS a band, with camaraderie and lots of fun on the road. The studio time might have been different, with Jeff more firmly in charge and not exactly equal input from all band members. To sum up: I don't really buy the theory that ELO always was a Jeff Lynne solo project.
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 20, 2017 9:15:13 GMT
All the relevant points regarding is it ELO or just a solo effort have been covered many times on here. So what? Does this mean we shall put a lid on it now? I think the discussion is interesting. Jeff Lynne's ELO might be a solo project now, but if you read some of the old books (Bev's, mostly) you do get the feeling that ELO indeed WAS a band, with camaraderie and lots of fun on the road. The studio time might have been different, with Jeff more firmly in charge and not exactly equal input from all band members. To sum up: I don't really buy the theory that ELO always was a Jeff Lynne solo project. I totally agree! I just said that this subject has been covered many times because bluey is a fairly new member and may not have read all the post relating to this. I too subscribe to the theory that ELO was a proper band and not just Jeff + hired hands....
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Post by pelo on Aug 20, 2017 10:25:07 GMT
I agree that Wood's original conception was different, but experimental Baroque and Roll (Wood) vs. radio friendly tunes (Lynne)? That's such a cliche. First of all, there are some really radio friendly tunes by Roy Wood on the first album. How about Whisper in the Night or First Movement? On the other hand there is some quirky stuff by Jeff. And if you look at Wood's later career you can clearly see that he liked both experimental and extremely radio friendly stuff. The most important thing for Jeff seems to be a nice melody, so he might never have tried something like Marston Moor. On the other hand, his songs are often both tuneful AND very experimental. Think of production techniques or arrangements. "Can you make it sound a little more weird?" was a typical instruction for sound engineer Mack. Lynne's version of ELO was totally different to Roy Wood's original conception of the band. Wood was always reinventing himself and his music, Wood's idea of ELO was experimental Baroque and Roll, Lynne's was much more commercial with radio friendly tunes and catchy lyrical choruses. I wonder if Wood's "Wear a Fast Gun" on the "Wizzard Brew" album was originally written for ELO's proposed second album "The Lost Planet" which finally saw the light of day in 1973 as "The Electric Light Orchestra II". "Wear a Fast Gun" would have fitted seamlessly on the second ELO album. It took decades for it to be admitted that Wood had actually played Bass Guitar and Cello on "In Old England Town" and "From the Sun to the World" on ELO 2. "The Battle of Marston Moor (2nd July 1644)" is typical of Wood's experimentation with it's medieval sound. Under Wood's leadership ELO would have become a cult baroque band rather than the mainstream pop band that Lynne created.
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Post by pelo on Aug 20, 2017 10:37:12 GMT
All the relevant points regarding is it ELO or just a solo effort have been covered many times on here. So what? Does this mean we shall put a lid on it now? I think the discussion is interesting. Jeff Lynne's ELO might be a solo project now, but if you read some of the old books (Bev's, mostly) you do get the feeling that ELO indeed WAS a band, with camaraderie and lots of fun on the road. The studio time might have been different, with Jeff more firmly in charge and not exactly equal input from all band members. To sum up: I don't really buy the theory that ELO always was a Jeff Lynne solo project. As mentioned before you need to make a distinction between live and studio. This is from a Rolling Stone article (December 1974) "It's very much a group thing onstage," [Lynne] maintains. "It's in the studio where I take control, 'cause I'm contracted to write all the stuff by my publishing deal, which I can't possibly get out of. And I'm the producer, so it's mostly in the studio where I'm in control. Onstage, we probably do half my songs and standards that we've redone." Of course, Jeff wanted to be in control in the studio. For example, he didn't even tell the other musicians that he was going to use an orchestra for "Eldorado". Of course, there was some creative input by other band members but this doesn't make their studio recordings band efforts. In the mid-Seventies they would record the basic rhythm tracks together, but after that the actual work began. Lots of overdubs. And this was mainly Jeff Lynne, (sometimes) Richard Tandy and the studio engineer (Mack etc.). The string section was hardly used from OOTB onwards. Even Mack was totally clueless about what Jeff was aiming for in terms of melody or arrangement. He just tried to challenge Jeff and to help create the music that Jeff had on his mind, and he was very important for the special effects.
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 20, 2017 14:01:00 GMT
In a correction to an earlier post, Kelly wasn't forced out until after the initial batch of sessions for what became Secret Messages, though you're right to say that the last songs completed for Time didn't feature all four core members of ELO... Richard wasn't at Polar Studios in Stockholm when The Way Life's Meant To Be was started, while Kelly and Bev weren't present for the two days in Los Angeles when Another Heart Breaks and Hold On Tight were recorded, the latter a 100% Jeff solo track. Also, Kelly's lawsuit wasn't settled until October 1983.
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Post by bluey on Aug 20, 2017 14:40:53 GMT
Thanks all for your replies to my posts, many heads are better than one.
I respect other members views and opinions.
I know that newer members like myself may be returning to subjects that have been covered previously. I don't have time to go through over 3 years of threads to check if a subject has already been covered, new members views are just as important are longer serving ones. That's what forums are all about, isn't it?
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Post by elophile on Aug 22, 2017 23:21:48 GMT
I watched the video - skipped to the parts where spawn of Jeff (SOJ) was talking. I can't find it again but SOJ told a great story about being 5 years old, alone in the house and rolling around on her mom's fur coat while listening to a Jimmy Hendrix album after consuming a pill that she found in her parents' nightstand... Jeff's done a good job of keeping his private life private up 'til now... he probably wishes he could censor her!!
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 23, 2017 0:07:34 GMT
So what? Does this mean we shall put a lid on it now? I think the discussion is interesting. Jeff Lynne's ELO might be a solo project now, but if you read some of the old books (Bev's, mostly) you do get the feeling that ELO indeed WAS a band, with camaraderie and lots of fun on the road. The studio time might have been different, with Jeff more firmly in charge and not exactly equal input from all band members. To sum up: I don't really buy the theory that ELO always was a Jeff Lynne solo project. As mentioned before you need to make a distinction between live and studio. This is from a Rolling Stone article (December 1974) "It's very much a group thing onstage," [Lynne] maintains. "It's in the studio where I take control, 'cause I'm contracted to write all the stuff by my publishing deal, which I can't possibly get out of. And I'm the producer, so it's mostly in the studio where I'm in control. Onstage, we probably do half my songs and standards that we've redone." Of course, Jeff wanted to be in control in the studio. For example, he didn't even tell the other musicians that he was going to use an orchestra for "Eldorado". Of course, there was some creative input by other band members but this doesn't make their studio recordings band efforts. In the mid-Seventies they would record the basic rhythm tracks together, but after that the actual work began. Lots of overdubs. And this was mainly Jeff Lynne, (sometimes) Richard Tandy and the studio engineer (Mack etc.). The string section was hardly used from OOTB onwards. Even Mack was totally clueless about what Jeff was aiming for in terms of melody or arrangement. He just tried to challenge Jeff and to help create the music that Jeff had on his mind, and he was very important for the special effects. I've highlighted a few points that don't seem entirely right to me... First of all, Jeff wasn't signed to the same publisher throughout ELO's entire original run, so there's no reason other than him wanting absolute control over not to let anyone else write for the group. Around the time of his first solo album, Kelly said that he felt Jeff didn't need any help in this department, yet was also in the middle of preparing a lawsuit that saw him claim co-authorship of at least one major hit, plus I've managed to find out that a song intended for Kelly's unreleased second album has its roots in an idea he worked on with Jeff during the initial batch of sessions for Secret Messages. Next, Richard absolutely knew that Jeff intended to use a full orchestra for the Eldorado project, since he was instrumental (pun not intended) in helping shape the arrangements, which the pair recorded in demo form on keyboards for Louis Clark to then adapt. Based on the accounts of someone I'd spoken to for my book who's heard further uncirculating outtakes from one of those Abbey Road CDR acetates prepared to audition potential bonus tracks for the remaster campaign, such piano sketches definitely still existed in the ELO vault as of around 2001. Finally for now, while it's correct that the core band would typically record the rhythm tracks together in the mid-1970s, the lengthy overdubbing process almost always involved Richard, as opposed to him being an occasional presence. More than anyone else in ELO over the years, Jeff highly valued Richard's input, and a further source revealed to me that Bev in particular grew quite frustrated by how long the pair spent either playing around with digital effects or trying to find new keyboard sounds on Secret Messages, where the sessions eventually lasted nearly a whole year! P.S. If we don't count Mik's heavily processed violin solo on Rock 'N' Roll Is King, was there a clear example of a string player getting a distinctive lead part beyond Out Of The Blue?
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Post by babyzoomer on Aug 24, 2017 12:58:16 GMT
Laura Lynne's name and image has been dropped from the "Rockward Live" facebook site header. Other images of her (e.g. in the 'photos' section) remain; but as far as any job as a presenter - apparently the situation has changed from a week ago.
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Post by pelo on Aug 24, 2017 15:11:09 GMT
As mentioned before you need to make a distinction between live and studio. This is from a Rolling Stone article (December 1974) "It's very much a group thing onstage," [Lynne] maintains. "It's in the studio where I take control, 'cause I'm contracted to write all the stuff by my publishing deal, which I can't possibly get out of. And I'm the producer, so it's mostly in the studio where I'm in control. Onstage, we probably do half my songs and standards that we've redone." Of course, Jeff wanted to be in control in the studio. For example, he didn't even tell the other musicians that he was going to use an orchestra for "Eldorado". Of course, there was some creative input by other band members but this doesn't make their studio recordings band efforts. In the mid-Seventies they would record the basic rhythm tracks together, but after that the actual work began. Lots of overdubs. And this was mainly Jeff Lynne, (sometimes) Richard Tandy and the studio engineer (Mack etc.). The string section was hardly used from OOTB onwards. Even Mack was totally clueless about what Jeff was aiming for in terms of melody or arrangement. He just tried to challenge Jeff and to help create the music that Jeff had on his mind, and he was very important for the special effects. I've highlighted a few points that don't seem entirely right to me... First of all, Jeff wasn't signed to the same publisher throughout ELO's entire original run, so there's no reason other than him wanting absolute control over not to let anyone else write for the group. Around the time of his first solo album, Kelly said that he felt Jeff didn't need any help in this department, yet was also in the middle of preparing a lawsuit that saw him claim co-authorship of at least one major hit, plus I've managed to find out that a song intended for Kelly's unreleased second album has its roots in an idea he worked on with Jeff during the initial batch of sessions for Secret Messages. Next, Richard absolutely knew that Jeff intended to use a full orchestra for the Eldorado project, since he was instrumental (pun not intended) in helping shape the arrangements, which the pair recorded in demo form on keyboards for Louis Clark to then adapt. Based on the accounts of someone I'd spoken to for my book who's heard further uncirculating outtakes from one of those Abbey Road CDR acetates prepared to audition potential bonus tracks for the remaster campaign, such piano sketches definitely still existed in the ELO vault as of around 2001. Finally for now, while it's correct that the core band would typically record the rhythm tracks together in the mid-1970s, the lengthy overdubbing process almost always involved Richard, as opposed to him being an occasional presence. More than anyone else in ELO over the years, Jeff highly valued Richard's input, and a further source revealed to me that Bev in particular grew quite frustrated by how long the pair spent either playing around with digital effects or trying to find new keyboard sounds on Secret Messages, where the sessions eventually lasted nearly a whole year! P.S. If we don't count Mik's heavily processed violin solo on Rock 'N' Roll Is King, was there a clear example of a string player getting a distinctive lead part beyond Out Of The Blue? Whatever happened to my post? I thought I had already replied to this, so let me write this again: The first statement you've highlighted is actually something Jeff said in an interview in 1974 and doesn't necessarily reflect my opinion. As I've pointed out in my original post, I am pretty sure that Jeff loved to be in control in the studio. Second, it was one of the sound engineers who told me in an interview for Face The Music Germany that the other musicians knew nothing about Jeff's plans to use an orchestra. This does not really refer to Richard Tandy who I consider Jeff's right-hand man during that era, as opposed to the rest of the band. Of course, Jeff said that Richard was helping a lot in the studio, but according to some interviews I read, he wasn't always present. (Maybe, "sometimes" is a little misleading, it should be "often".) Jeff could become really obsessed with a song, so he sometimes even sneaked into the studio to finish off work with the engineer.
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Post by Horacewimp on Aug 24, 2017 15:54:35 GMT
Nothing untoward in the forum logs pelo so don't know what happened to your post, nothing deleted from this end
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