confusion
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Post by confusion on Apr 28, 2017 13:19:03 GMT
I did hear that secret messages was going to be a double album-Will the unreleased songs/music ever see the light of day smiley-cool15
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Post by babyzoomer on Apr 28, 2017 13:37:54 GMT
Thanks for asking Confusion - all of the 'other songs' from the proposed double album of SM have been released in one form or another; as B-sides and on later re-releases. The only real exception is the song "Beatles Forever" which (for reasons best known to Jeff Lynne) will probably never see the light day; some say (imagine a parrot on my shoulder) that if 'ee squints whilst facing west on the equinox that the tune from 'beatles' has made a re-appearance in JL's song "Video".
The most notable discard from the double SM album is "Hello My Old Friend" - oh how we weep that we were denied this absolute gem for so long....
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Post by babyzoomer on Apr 28, 2017 14:10:41 GMT
Oooops - yet again I forgot the main point; just 'goggle' it (Secret Messages, I mean); the wiki info is largely accurate.
I'm still enthralled by the truncated SM - full of JL's genius, anyway.
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confusion
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Post by confusion on Apr 28, 2017 14:13:32 GMT
Hello my old friend or I am the walrus part 2 Thanks babyzoomer great reply
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Post by ShardEnder on Apr 28, 2017 16:16:22 GMT
I'll avoid writing out what I've already said on the subject yet again, but we're probably the closest we've ever been to hearing Secret Messages in its originally intended double album form... Whether it first surfaces officially or not remains to be seen, though you've chosen a great time to show interest, because I'm sure we'll definitely get something by the end of this year either way!
P.S. The only tracks from the 2LP configuration still unreleased are the shorter mix of After All compared with its extended b-side variation, the unedited Hello My Old Friend and Beatles Forever, of course.
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arnoldlayne
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Post by arnoldlayne on Apr 29, 2017 18:12:12 GMT
OP,
It's nice to see someone else discover the sheer scale and magnitude of what Secret Messages was, and still can be. It's no secret now that it was intended to be a double album; a grand magnum opus double concept album (and IMO, still one of the best double/concept albums ever) -- You mentioned in your inital post that 'Will the unreleased songs/music ever see the light of day' ??
The answer is a long one, which I'll attempt to do shrink down into a sort of ELI5, idiots guide to the double length album that you can use as a starting point for making your own.
Side A: This is exactly the same as the vinyl/CD/tape that was released officially.
Secret Messages - On the official release Loser Gone Wild - On the official release Bluebird - On the official release Take Me On and On - On the official release
Side B
Stranger - Again, On the official release (One of ELO's most under-rated songs IMO) No Way Out - This surfaced on the Afterglow Box Set (Now OOP, Might be tricky to find) but was ALSO included on the 2001 remastered CD (easily available) Beatles Forever - There are 2 versions circulating. One is a covert recording from a public playing (and subsequently uploaded on Youtube) and the other (and higher quality) is a copy made from a tape that was used to confirm the legitimacy of some SM recordings sold at auction. There are some subtle (and deliberate) audio watermarks on this version also. It aired on an ELO Podcast, which has it's archives online if you google enough. Just cut the song out in Audacity or something. Letter from Spain - Available on the official release -- This song is still a thing... Danger Ahead - Available on the official release - An absolute rocker of a tune. Side C
Four Little Diamonds - The out-take version is available on the previously mentioned Flashback Afterglow (Thanks, Shardender) comp. The intro chatter contains the additon of "Hows it go? Dah Dah Dah!" before "After 4...4!" Train of Gold - Available on the official release Endless Lies - Available on the 2001 Remastered CD. Buildings Have Eyes - This surfaced on the Afterglow comp, but was the B-Side when the song Secret Messages was released as a sing. Rock 'n' Roll is King - Available on the official release/various hit comps etc -- The outtake version doesn't have the strange cacophony outro from the official release.
Side D
Mandalay - Available on Afterglow. Such a wonderful piece of music! Time After Time - Available on some earlier official releases, but on the 2001 remaster. After All - Available on Flashback, B-Side to Rock & Roll is King and the 2001 remaster. You need to shorten it down to about 41 seconds to match the originally intended length; so basically cutting out the middle solo with some well timed crossfades. Hello My Old Friend - Available on the Afterglow Comp. Possibly ELO's finest moment. Bev twats the ever loving shit out of his drums in the latter half - The Afterglow version just fades out slowly -- but the originally intended ending was to have it bookend the album with the same strange cacophony from the start of the album -- It's a bit tricky to get this restored (as best we can) in Audacity or the like... You need to gradually counter the fade out by increasing the volume towards the end of the song. Then take the intro to Secret Messages, reverse and crossfade it into the ending of Hello, My Old Friend. Easier said than done, the exact point to fade and bring it in requires a bit of playing around. Just trust your ears and gut.
If you look into the history of ShardEnders posts he goes into this in MUCH more detail than I have above.
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Post by ShardEnder on Apr 29, 2017 20:53:33 GMT
Your summary is almost perfect, but the 2LP mix of Four Little Diamonds was released on Afterglow rather than Flashback. Also, in addition to the other changes mentioned, there was a short link track between After All and Hello My Old Friend that has never been officially released - despite my previous comments on this piece, I've since had it confirmed that this wasn't the same "thank you for listening" reversed clip attached to the start of Rock 'N' Roll Is King on Secret Messages in its eventual single album form, being described by some as a three-second wind intro...
P.S. That description of Bev's drums in the second half of Hello My Old Friend has just become one of my favourite quotes ever!
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arnoldlayne
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Post by arnoldlayne on Apr 29, 2017 22:15:35 GMT
I often get Afterglow and Flashback mixed up, thanks for correcting me. New discoveries about even more content that should have been on SM that we've not heard officially or unofficially yet -- where do I sign up. Your book is going to be a pre-order/day 1 buy for sure.
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confusion
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Eat More Chips Dont Let Salad Win
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Post by confusion on Apr 30, 2017 6:43:20 GMT
Thanks for your fantastic knowledge regarding secret messages 😊 just hope it eventually gets released as a double lp
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Post by babyzoomer on Jul 7, 2017 0:37:59 GMT
(Nudge) One opinion oft expressed here (and elsewhere) is that JL won't allow Beatles Forever to be released because (whilst containing many overt and covert snippets/references to Beatles songs) it has no George Harrison bits....
But isn't the second word of the first verse "Something"?
Just a thought.....
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Post by jackpunch on Jul 7, 2017 7:56:41 GMT
(Nudge) One opinion oft expressed here (and elsewhere) is that JL won't allow Beatles Forever to be released because (whilst containing many overt and covert snippets/references to Beatles songs) it has no George Harrison bits.... But isn't the second word of the first verse "Something"? Just a thought..... The real reason it's never been released is that it's complete and utter dross.
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Post by babyzoomer on Jul 7, 2017 8:32:22 GMT
(Nudge) One opinion oft expressed here (and elsewhere) is that JL won't allow Beatles Forever to be released because (whilst containing many overt and covert snippets/references to Beatles songs) it has no George Harrison bits.... But isn't the second word of the first verse "Something"? Just a thought..... The real reason it's never been released is that it's complete and utter dross. And yet there is a quote somewhere from Bev Bevan saying that the song was a surefire hit.....(but then what sort of judge is/was he?). I suspect that you may have the rights of the matter jackpunch. It's the a pity the only publically available copy of the song is of such poor quality; difficult to be sure.
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arnoldlayne
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Post by arnoldlayne on Jul 7, 2017 21:02:54 GMT
I didn't think Beatles forever was that bad. It's an unusual song to include slap bang in the midst of a double concept album. We sometimes get songs making a quick and passing reference to other songs/bands, but not something as direct as Beatles Forever. It's a nice chord progression, and some of the signature Secret Messages synth sounds can be heard in this song. I'd love for it to see the light of day in some way. I'm sure you know it was recycled for Jeff's solo track, Video! - Whilst that is another decent tune... Beatles Forever wins this round.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jul 7, 2017 21:37:36 GMT
Even in its 2LP form, Secret Messages was never a concept album. Much like Sgt. Pepper, it stated off being heavily influenced by nostalgia, only to evolve into something very different by the end product. Stranger, Hello My Old Friend and Beatles Forever are the most obvious examples of Jeff's original intention, while Motor Factory would have been similarly-themed had he not decide to completely rewrite its lyrics, which were initially based around a fictional chant of workers at the Longbridge car plant. In many ways, you could argue that Jeff's vision for Secret Messages (or Unexpected Moments as it was once to have been titled) was far more layered than anything The Beatles came up with, since Hello My Old Friend works as Jeff saying farewell not only to a rapidly-changing hometown he no longer recognised, but as a deliberate swansong for ELO, it's final chorus altered slightly to fit this idea.
As for Beatles Forever, I find this improves massively if you consider it the logical conclusion of Jeff mourning John Lennon, which first manifested in 21st Century Man then the Time Tour tribute medley. As for its reworking into Video! just a few months after the original studio version was dropped from the final running order for Secret Messages, I find the later effort lacking due to it being a thinly-veiled excuse for Jeff to indulge his dream of finally getting to experiment with a Fairlight. Stripped of its "poor man's Trevor Horn" production approach (to quote a notable reviewer), clearly even Jeff felt there was untapped potential remaining, hence it's chorus melody eventually turning up at a much slower tempo in A Love So Beautiful - a song Jeff claimed to have written on spec with Roy Orbison, even though he was clearly recycling, just as he did with Night Calls for Joe Cocker, which can trace its lineage to Tears In Your Life, After All and Sirens. If there's one thing I've learned from years of studying Jeff's craft, it's that he never lets a good melody go to waste. How else do you explain The Way Life's Meant To Be sounding so close to Across The Border? He really wanted that basic idea to succeed, even if it owes much of its existence to Heroes And Villains by The Beach Boys...
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Post by babyzoomer on Jul 7, 2017 22:48:44 GMT
Even in its 2LP form, Secret Messages was never a concept album. Much like Sgt. Pepper, it stated off being heavily influenced by nostalgia, only to evolve into something very different by the end product. Stranger, Hello My Old Friend and Beatles Forever are the most obvious examples of Jeff's original intention, while Motor Factory would have been similarly-themed had he not decide to completely rewrite its lyrics, which were initially based around a fictional chant of workers at the Longbridge car plant. In many ways, you could argue that Jeff's vision for Secret Messages (or Unexpected Moments as it was once to have been titled) was far more layered than anything The Beatles came up with, since Hello My Old Friend works as Jeff saying farewell not only to a rapidly-changing hometown he no longer recognised, but as a deliberate swansong for ELO, it's final chorus altered slightly to fit this idea. As for Beatles Forever, I find this improves massively if you consider it the logical conclusion of Jeff mourning John Lennon, which first manifested in 21st Century Man then the Time Tour tribute medley. As for its reworking into Video! just a few months after the original studio version was dropped from the final running order for Secret Messages, I find the later effort lacking due to it being a thinly-veiled excuse for Jeff to indulge his dream of finally getting to experiment with a Fairlight. Stripped of its "poor man's Trevor Horn" production approach (to quote a notable reviewer), clearly even Jeff felt there was untapped potential remaining, hence it's chorus melody eventually turning up at a much slower tempo in A Love So Beautiful - a song Jeff claimed to have written on spec with Roy Orbison, even though he was clearly recycling, just as he did with Night Calls for Joe Cocker, which can trace its lineage to Tears In Your Life, After All and Sirens. If there's one thing I've learned from years of studying Jeff's craft, it's that he never lets a good melody go to waste. How else do you explain The Way Life's Meant To Be sounding so close to Across The Border? He really wanted that basic idea to succeed, even if it owes much of its existence to Heroes And Villains by The Beach Boys... As was stated during George Harrison's endless plagiarism trials - you've only got eight notes, and most of the ways you can put them together sound crap. One of the things I've always enjoyed about JL's music is his desire (and ability) to escape the endless DCG cord progression of much of what passes for 'pop' music.
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