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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 18:09:59 GMT
Since purchasing the ELO Classic Albums Collection one of my favorite songs has become Surrender. I didn't realize this track even existed, but after it came out I wondered where it had been all these years. From what I've read Jeff Lynne never has been a big fan of using reverb, but man for this track it sure did seem to work. Maybe it's a stretch but I'm thinking this song could have been a hit in nearly any decade - right up to current times. I just wish it was about a minute longer! Any other songs where Jeff has been confirmed to use the reverb?
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Post by PowWow on Feb 14, 2017 18:42:13 GMT
Maybe the reverb helps the song in particular gain a fuller spacy sound? My original assumption was that Surrender was more unfinished than others like Latitude 88 North or Little Town Flirt and Jeff had to plaster reverb/echo to stretch it out as far as possible. The BOP single Getting to the Point had plenty of effects added to it. I think Rock n' Roll is King had copious amounts too...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2017 22:58:30 GMT
I agree, it creates a nice spacy atmosphere and for me really works for the song. I hadn't thought about it being used simply to stretch everything out. I was thinking about it being used more experimentally, but your point makes more sense. I was just happy to hear something with a different twist come out of that era.
Of all ELO's albums I'm least familiar with Secret Messages and BOP. Not that I don't like them, I just love the other albums so much and have listened to them more. But SM has started to grow on me lately, so I'll pay closer attention next time.
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 15, 2017 19:08:34 GMT
Unlike the completed version of Latitude 88 North, there don't appear to be any distinctively vintage elements in Surrender, and that reverb is definitely not something Jeff would have used in 1976. Curiously, we still have no idea what film Surrender was intended for, and despite him later claiming to hate excessive reverb, Jeff only developed this stance after collaborating with George Harrison - they even did a radio session together where you can hear the former Beatle asking for the reverb to be turned off, yet just a few months before, Getting To The Point had been released in a mix that had Jeff's lead soaked in echo.
As I've mentioned elsewhere, it seems as if Jeff became fascinated with the AMS RMX16 digital effects rack soon after its release, first discovering this when one of the earliest commercially-produced units found its way into Wisseloord Studios at some point between ELO's original stop there in February 1982 during the European leg of the Time Tour and the main batch of recordings for Secret Messages taking place there from August '82 through to the beginning of 1983, with only a short break in December for the holidays (which allowed Jeff time to reconsider a few details, including the eventual album's title).
For a short period, Jeff went absolutely crazy with digital reverb, and there are some very inventive uses for the AMS RMX16 on Secret Messages. Have you ever noticed that ridiculously long note that Jeff appears to hold in the middle of Take Me On And On? Rather than actually sing this, he simply cranked the attack dial on the RMX16 to zero and pushed up the echo to maximum, creating a note that could theoretically loop forever. The ghostly-sounding choir of both Mandalay and Hello My Old Friend was achieved using the same method, rather than being synthesised via his other '82 era obsession, the Oberheim OB-Xa.
P.S. I wouldn't pay much attention to "every little thing" Jeff says these days... He supposedly didn't produce anything for outside artists before working on Cloud Nine, even though I could quite easily compile a full disc of evidence that proves otherwise, and yes, that pun was very much intended!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2017 22:33:49 GMT
Thanks for the great info and education, Shardender!
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Post by queenofthehours on Feb 19, 2017 14:02:27 GMT
'Surrender' is often my favourite ELO track.
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Post by pelo on Aug 9, 2017 12:52:18 GMT
I am not an expert on recording techniques but I would like to make the point that there is a difference between slap echo and reverb, with Jeff stating frequently a liking for the former effect. Except for a short period in the Eighties, he actually never really liked artificial reverb. For example, when asked in 1974 about his wall of sound approach, Lynne said that in contrast to Phil Spector, he would record the orchestra really dry, without putting much reverb on it. Mack has gone on record as saying that even in the old days Jeff was really into recording real room sounds instead of adding artificial reverb, which Mack sometimes did, though (without Jeff noticing). Still, I think it's wrong to conclude that Jeff Lynne refuses the use of artificial/digital reverb completely. I think in 2012 he has stated that he might use it for a special effect (like in Horace Wimp). So the real problem for him seems to be that most producers these days add a little reverb on any instrument/voice as a matter of course. There is always a little reverb, simply because everyone does it that way.
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Post by babyzoomer on Aug 9, 2017 13:12:01 GMT
I am definitely in the 'why the hell did Jeff sit on this gem for so long' camp. I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Surrender. Even the missus - who (as I have noted elsewhere) is more of a Bon Jovi fan than JL - in fact she thinks I'm bonkers - loved Surrender the moment she first heard it. I cannot but think the track would (with the right handling) be a success in ANY decade from the 70s to today. An absolute classic. I use it as a 'test drive' piece when trying new speakers (along with DBMD). Oh god I'm such a gormless fan of this! But I can't help it. (Just wish he'd done a second verse - and used real brass). Look away! Look away! That's not my sunglasses in my pocket!
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Post by elophile on Aug 9, 2017 15:35:27 GMT
I am definitely in the 'why the hell did Jeff sit on this gem for so long' camp. I loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooove Surrender. Even the missus - who (as I have noted elsewhere) is more of a Bon Jovi fan than JL - in fact she thinks I'm bonkers - loved Surrender the moment she first heard it. I cannot but think the track would (with the right handling) be a success in ANY decade from the 70s to today. An absolute classic. I use it as a 'test drive' piece when trying new speakers (along with DBMD). Oh god I'm such a gormless fan of this! But I can't help it. (Just wish he'd done a second verse - and used real brass). Look away! Look away! That's not my sunglasses in my pocket! lol it's a good song. Love the enthusiasm!!
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Post by jefflynnesnose on Aug 17, 2017 2:08:24 GMT
I love this song, too! It sounds timeless as much as it takes pieces of music from different eras. I think it deserves more recognition!
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