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Post by livinthing on Aug 25, 2014 8:13:37 GMT
Don't use a link to the audio please. But use a link to the page of the website... Will do, thanks Nicolas
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Post by nicolas on Aug 25, 2014 12:44:02 GMT
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Post by livinthing on Aug 25, 2014 13:22:27 GMT
Thanks Nicolas, I have just been on it and listened to the interview in question. Very fascinating. Some other ones on there too which I will catch another time. The heavy rain we have here is supposed to ease off shortly so the Dogs need to go out for their walk. Thanks again and all the best.
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 25, 2014 21:22:57 GMT
I presume you have a similar albeit extra disc for Time too and possibly BOP? Apart from the promos,a good recording of the Time tour and possibly all of the Heartbeat concert would need to be included. Once I've created a definitive version of the expanded Secret Messages that I'm happy with (including revised artwork to match the final sequencing), my next Jeff Lynne related project will be a compilation of all the best performances from the Time Tour, possibly followed by a "new" album based on the abandoned original Lost Planet concept for ELO 2 using vintage 1973 era outtakes... Balance Of Power doesn't really have many circulating leftovers that weren't on the remaster outside of the two lyrical variations of A Matter Of Fact or highlights of the Heart Beat '86 show, which might end up being on the accompanying DVD instead along with the promotional videos for Calling America and So Serious. As for the ELO Megamix and far more rare Calling America Disco Mix, I've got to agree with Jeff that neither are really part of the official canon!
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Post by livinthing on Aug 26, 2014 16:30:53 GMT
I would love to create something like your SM definitive version. My resources are a bit limited here. I did get my 12" vinyl MOF tracks copied onto a disc which is coupled with my BOP remastered edition. I do have the mega-mix on another disc somewhere,but like you,I'm not really interested in CA disco mix. I have SM 1991 version on CD,Afterglow and very recently managed to get Beatles forever plus the Video tracks onto a disc thanks to a neighbour. I discussed the promo video's on the old forum with kind suggestions from various members but up to now I haven't the technology to copy them onto anything so that is still on going but one day hopefully I can do something about that. Perhaps at the same time some of the Time tour as well. As for the art work,and some picture's ,they are downloaded. So that's it for the time being until I upgrade my equipment. You also mention Danger ahead from the accitates? Do you actually have this ?if so ,how easy is it to listen/download?
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 27, 2014 14:45:00 GMT
Not long after that "unmatched" set of acetates surfaced, four songs from the complete Secret Messages double LP configuration started circulating online in very tight circles - these were allegedly sourced from (original Wisseloord sessions engineer) Bill Bottrell's safety cassette of the whole album, which had been copied to verify the authenticity of the items up for auction on eBay by comparing very specific details exclusive to those particular versions.
Beatles Forever quickly circulated outside of its agreed conditions, providing fans with the first quality upgrade of this holy grail since the 2001 leak, which had been recorded using a video camera hidden inside a bag at a convention playback held by Rob Caiger prior to Jeff's first performance under the ELO name in 15 years. Additionally, the short edit of After All then made its way online, though it's possible the version currently available is a very good recreation...
Similarly, the "alternate acetate mix" of Danger Ahead presently found on YouTube is definitely not the real thing, but is rather the single album version with elements muted using stereo cancellation. However, it's believed to be close enough that I'm using this for now until someone comes forward with the genuine outtake along with the other track, which has been described as an early Secret Messages with a slightly different introduction and less processing on Jeff's vocals.
Back to After All for a moment, it should be noted that this segued into Hello My Old Friend with a section described as a whisper according to those who've been lucky enough to hear the official assembly. For my version, I've taken a guess and predicted that Rock 'N' Roll Is King was simply the US single edit, featuring a clean ending as opposed to crossfading into the reverse "welcome to the show" segment intended for the climax of Hello My Old Friend.
Along with this difference, I chose to use the brief "thank you for listening" backwards message as a bridge from After All to Hello My Old Friend, as it seems to work a lot better in this context. Also, it's clear the Afterglow edit of the album's final track was faded in at both the start and finish, so I made the opening keyboard note slightly longer. Once these changes were made and the conclusion restored, I was left with something much closer to the reported full length.
One song I'd love to hear that is perhaps one of the most unlikely to surface is the extended Beatles Forever with an extra verse. Considering how reluctant Jeff is to put out the more common acetate mix of this track, our only chance would be if some kind person decided to upload a copy of the mythical third disc that presumably contains quite a few other undocumented alternate mixes and outtakes. However, to my knowledge nobody is known to actually have this.
In fact, we only have Rob Caiger's word that such an item even exists, though I'm certainly not doubting him. As the official archivist for ELO, he should know what's in the vaults, including The Garden Rehearsals! Finally, until the Flashback boxed set gave us four newly completed songs originally dating from 1982, we had no idea there were extra tracks outside of the 18 previously listed that could be linked to the Secret Messages project. Who's to say there aren't more?
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Post by Horacewimp on Aug 27, 2014 15:14:22 GMT
This was getting lost in the other thread so I've separated it.
HW
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Post by livinthing on Aug 27, 2014 16:02:29 GMT
This was getting lost in the other thread so I've separated it. HW Nice one.:-)
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 29, 2014 23:22:26 GMT
Having thought about it for a while, I think my next expanded (mostly) ELO compilation might actually end up being a deluxe version of the Xanadu soundtrack using every major composition from the film itself, plus all of Jeff's demos, the handful of b-sides and outtakes known to be in circulation. Rather than spread these out across two discs, with a little planning I should be able to fit all the really important material on a single CDR - how many variations of the theme song do we need, anyway? I reckon the original album/single mix, reprise, instrumental "overture" and Flashback remake will prove enough for most... Again, the intention is to produce a marked improvement compared with the official alternative using what's already out there!
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Post by livinthing on Aug 30, 2014 17:02:12 GMT
Didn't Jeff submit a solo set for the soundtrack which was refused due to the fact that they wanted ELO? If so,there must be a lot of that material in existance?
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Post by PowWow on Oct 31, 2014 1:01:58 GMT
I don't see the point in adding all those radio edits on Disc 2 :/
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 12, 2015 15:16:07 GMT
I never thought that I'd be updating this thread (unless it was to share my joy at the news Jeff had finally approved a Deluxe Edition of Secret Messages, which he still hasn't), but my once definitive version of the album is in need of an update due to two "new" songs becoming available... First of all, in addition to Jeff performing Rock 'N' Roll Is King during his concert at Hyde Park, I was recently informed about the original high quality copy for the second source of Beatles Forever being found hiding away in a corner of the internet I'd not checked before.
So, after very little consideration and with not much persuation necessary, I spent a few hours today and attempted what I'm hoping will now be the final attempt at this particular compilation, adding these tracks along with upgrading the sound of the first disc to match the better MP3 of Beatles Forever that I've now acquired. While it would be unethical to share the audio, I'll at least upload the artwork I designed once I'm done modifying this, and perhaps you can expect a comprehensive guide on how I achieved the restoration, including technical details.
Despite my intention being to produce the most comprehensive set of all Secret Messages era tracks, I ultimately agree that having single and alternate edits was a waste of space. Having dropped those particular selections, I can now fit everything on two discs, with enough room left over for the promo videos on the second as opposed to using an additional DVD, which again felt pointless due to the lack of multimdia content. However, I did have some fun with the second disc, taking a few creative liberties and even sneaking on a hidden track somewhere!
Following this, I'm going to finish off my planned expansion of Xanadu at some point, then I might have a go at Eldorado, as I've realised just how many outtakes from this period are really out there, including the mythical Trojan Tapes Sessions uploaded by Nathan James, AKA Fred From Stoke. Unfortunately, with the exception of a few single edits, even less alternate mixes and their respective promotional videos, there isn't enough circulating from Discovery or Time for me to really bother tackling these, although I still hope we get something official eventually.
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Post by Helmut83 on Jan 13, 2015 2:18:38 GMT
Not a fan of "Beatles Forever" (at least of what you could hear in that pirate recording), but I'm looking forward all the same to listening to the original version.
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Post by jrmugz on Jan 13, 2015 2:38:08 GMT
It's always just killed me how much this is an album in need of being released with the deluxe treatment.
Jim
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 13, 2015 22:38:11 GMT
Sadly, with the exception of Beatles Forever (plus the fact I've had to manually reconstruct the short edit of After All and restore the full ending to Hello My Old Friend), which is easy enough to find in acceptable quality, every other track in my home made deluxe edition is readily available on official releases, so there really is no reason for Jeff/Rob/Sony to push forward with a proper expanded version of Secret Messages... unless they mine the vaults to give us something new as bonus content, like the mythical Garden Rehearsals, uncirculated alternate mixes from the additional acetate in that original triple set or even some early demos. Actually, it would be fantastic if they gave us a full digital copy of the third disc from those test pressings, as I don't believe these have yet surfaced.
Rob Caiger has said in the past that Eldorado, Discovery and Time are also long overdue the expanded treatment to bring these in line with the later remasters, but what can realistically be added to justify tackling these again? I know that a few people over at the Steve Hoffman forum would love for Jeff to go back and remix Time from the multitrack tapes, preferably with far less compression used. While this might be possible, the sound was clearly something Jeff intended, not to mention it was supposedly the reason why Mack was replaced with Bill Bottrell, who first engineered Hold On Tight before recording ELO again for the Wisseloord sessions that resulted in the majority of Secret Messages.
On that note, it would be fantastic if Rob would speak up about what he knows about this period, as we have very little information about the '82 sessions. Richard Tandy has suggested that the version of Hello My Old Friend cut at Jeff's house might even be superior to the final track, and I've already discussed my The Garden Rehearsals at length. Letter From Spain is a Jeff solo track, plus I'm convinced quite a few other Secret Messages songs were produced without the rest of the band, or perhaps just Richard - After All seems a likely example, and it has since been revealed that Kelly Groucutt was only present for just four songs, two not even making the final cut!
Back onto the other three albums remastered in 2001, I can't imagine there is much from Time apart from a few early mixes and the mysterious outtake we know exists only because an engineer later spoke about this, supposedly called Sad Affair (which Jeff frequently used as one of his more common working titles). Of course, it would be great if he was to finally approve those recordings from the Time tour that were rumoured to form the second disc of the band's then-new album at one point before he wrote enough new songs to make this a studio double, but if they weren't satisfactory back in the day I'm not holding my breath on their release now, unless advances in technology mean they can be fixed somehow, that is.
We could be surprised with a large amount of home demos to pad out Discovery or Time, but again the problem is that Jeff rarely wants these releasing - let's not forget that an early recording of It's Over was once planned to appear on Flashback, and he's been quite open about the Swiss chalet where he wrote and cut basic ideas that would form the majority of Out Of The Blue. What chance is there of us ever getting to hear these when he can't even decide on the best outlet for the Trojan Tapes Sessions, which are now out there after years of being teased with these holy grails? The best option would be for an Anthology type package where maybe a whole disc or two can be dedicated to the really hardcore material in addition to more expected hits, live tracks and deep cuts, though I doubt this will happen any time soon.
While I'm making a few last minute alterations to my version of Secret Messages, does everyone agree that Jeff's contributions to the Electric Dreams soundtrack deserve a place on this over Balance Of Power? Yes, in terms of its overall sound there's no denying that Sooner Or Later in particular seems like a prelude to ELO's final album until Zoom, but Video! is a recycling of Beatles Forever produced just a year after, while Let It Run fits perfectly next to similar fast-paced tracks such as Danger Ahead and Rock 'N' Roll Is King. Finally, what about the '82 outtakes finished in 2000 for the Flashback retrospective? Tears In Your Life is another variation on the same basic idea used in After All, plus Grieg's Piano Concerto In A Minor and Who's That were originally acoustic checks made when Jeff first showed up at Wisseloord with Richard, so I'd say these were relevant along with Helpless.
Now that I think about it, could a sanctioned 2CD Deluxe Edition of Secret Messages be that good compared to what can be assembled by someone unrestricted by Jeff's approval or budget limitations? For starters, there's no way the powers that be will consider locating then licensing the Rockline interview as there's no precedent for this in the ELO back catalogue, and including the songs I've just covered would surely devalue Flashback, reducing the likeliness of these appearing. I'm curious to know what Rob listed in his proposal, since it makes sense to abandon the obvious extras for whatever's in the vault that we don't already have, including at the very least highlights from The Garden Rehearsals. In a less connected world he might have been able to get away with using Beatles Forever as the sole incentive, but today it will take more for the average buyer to think of double dipping on this album.
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