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Post by fourlittlediamonds on Feb 23, 2016 22:24:14 GMT
Hi All, Newbie and first post on this forum and great to see a place like this online.
My post was prompted by an interview/q+a with Jeff in this month's Uncut magazine. There were several questions from the likes of Roger McGuinn, Francis Rossi and James Dean Bradfield but one from a fan about The Move and Bev prompted an interesting response. Jeff referred to him as just "Bevan" and mentioned that he hasnt seen or spoken to him for about "45 years"(!) Now Jeff has said something like this before and apart from the exaggeration (he hasn't spoken to Bev since 1971?) it seemed such an ungracious and dismissive attitude to someone who was his bandmate and friend for a long time.
Clearly there's still a lot of bad blood here and resentment coming from Jeff , much of which seems to stem from the ELO Part 2 situation and all those dodgy off- shoot bands that sprang up in its wake, claiming ELO heritage, that Jeff had to sue. But, it seems with these comments , Jeff seems to be almost dismissing Bev's role and contribution to those years. We all know Jeff was the heart and soul of the group but a group it was and that's why we loved it, with all its personalities, even if Jeff was the creative driving force and powerhouse.
As a fan, its a real shame to see this fall-out smouldering on between two guys who were just a couple of Brummie lads when they started out ,with few pretensions who just wanted to make music. Bev, it appeared, did try to offer an olive branch, of sorts, when he posted a photo and warm praise of Alone In The Universe on his Facebook page, but alas, no truce. They are now in the twilight of their careers and if, as Jeff says, it is all " water under the bridge now" isn't it time to let it go, as one day, soon,( as many other rock music feuds have shown) it will be too late.
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 23, 2016 22:32:54 GMT
It's very sad. I'm not someone who understands falling out with people to that extent. Normally, you just drift away from friends, collegues if you no longer see eye to eye. Mind you I've never been in a situation where there's much money involved.
I couldnt care less in terms of what Bev brings to ELO. He's an awful drummer who hit very lucky with ELO. However, he put his heart and soul into it and was very much the heartbeat of the band. Its sad to see that Jeff really isnt interested in at least making up with Bev even if he doesnt want him as a drummer.
Lifes far far to short to hold grudges in my view.
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Post by dillwyn on Feb 23, 2016 22:40:56 GMT
To be fair, you don't make that long a career in music if you are awful. The recording process for Elo demanded a level of simplicity.
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 23, 2016 22:44:18 GMT
To be fair, you don't make that long a career in music if you are awful. The recording process for Elo demanded a level of simplicity. Oh, he's awful. Technically he's very limited. He gives them a good thump, but in terms of feel, touch or accuracy he's no Gene Krupa. But thats irrelevant, the thread is about the fall out between them.
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Post by BSJ on Feb 23, 2016 22:48:01 GMT
I saw Bev's congrats to Jeff too, and thought it a classy move.
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 24, 2016 3:19:14 GMT
Calling him "Bevan" is a bit too much, isn't it? At least "Bev Bevan" if you feel "Bev" suggests being more close than you really are. Related to this, I get the feeling that Mr. Lynne is less of the simple-hearted goody-good than many people picture him to be. I'm not saying he might be a bad guy or something, just that the man seems to have his claws and that there's some room in his heart for bitterness and rancour (well, who hasn't some room for them?). On the other hand, Bev Bevan's contributions to the band were just... playing drums. And recording drums. And a few voices here and there, like on "Strange Magic", "Above the Clouds", "Jungle", etc... He contributed nothing to the creative process so I wouldn't overrate him in that aspect. This is why I'll have to disagree with you, fourlittlediamonds (welcome to the forum, BTW!). I don't think ELO wasn't a band in the sense we know bands (with mixed contributions to the creative process as a defining feature) as you say in your last paragraph. In my opinion, it was just musicians playing what Jeff Lynne created. Heck, I'd even say CCR was more of a band than ELO. This being said, I agree with the others in deploring these attitudes (particularly from Jeff, as Bev had had that classy praise about AITU).
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 24, 2016 3:21:40 GMT
Uh, and re-reading that last sentence from 4LD and having in mind I just cited the CCR example... John Fogerty said on interviews that one thing he regrets a lot is not having come to terms with his brother Tom before his death. May Lynne and Bevan don't go through the same kind of situation.
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 24, 2016 4:25:15 GMT
I'm not usually one to be so forward, but Jeff must surely know that fans - both hardcore and casual - wouldn't need to spend an eternity searching online to disprove the amount of time he claims not to have spoken with "Bevan," which I definitely see as a knock on his former colleague. Even if they didn't exchange a single word after going their separate ways in 1986, there's still the months of negotiations that had to be settled before Part II came into existence, plus it's believed they have at least spoken over the phone since Bev gave up his 50% share in ELO. I don't recall Bev ever saying anything immediately hostile about Jeff in recent years, though he's been quite vocal when it comes to stating a few regrets. First of all, he said that he preferred being in The Move, and feels they should have made greater efforts to crack America before focusing all of their collective energy into ELO, as this meant losing a lot of the momentum they'd worked hard to build up. The one thing that has changed is Bev's gone back on his vow to never play another ELO song again, though I believe that was a comment made around the time he'd just left Part II under circumstances that saw pretty much everyone in that group fall out with him (apart from Phil Bates, as they later reunited on stage).
Despite the noble and completely unexpected gesture of Bev congratulating Jeff on Alone In The Universe, the fact remains that ELO remains whoever its sole leader chooses to include, and for now that appears to be almost entirely Mr. Blue Sky himself in the studio, with Richard Tandy on stage plus a revolving door of session musicians who are undeniably talented yet never permanent fixtures. Although he was invited to make a credited appearance on the Time Tour and subsequent Secret Messages sessions, even returning for the handful of shows in 1986, it seems as if Jeff was reluctant to announce Dave Morgan as a permanent member of ELO. On the other hand, he went on to produce a song for Dave and then had him participate in the choir for several Armchair Theatre tracks, so it's not as if there was a snubbing taking place due to Jeff already having one eye beyond ELO. My guess is that Jeff's simply afraid to make such major commitments because of what happened with Kelly, whose death he didn't openly acknowledge. Like it or not, Jeff owes his old colleagues nothing, yet it's equally noble that he continues to call on Richard, both as a nod to his own past and to give fans another familiar face up there with him.
As for the subject of Bev as a musician, let's not forget that The Move came to exist because of Ace Kefford and Trevor Burton poaching who they felt were the best talents from some of the biggest groups around the Brum Beat scene. They clearly saw potential in Bev, and I doubt he was offered equal partnership in ELO as a result of there being no other drummers available. Sure, he later called Looking On ponderous, notoriously refused to be involved with recording The Battle Of Marston Moor then enraged Roy Wood by reforming The Move in his absence by using the argument he too was recruited and therefore didn't need asking for permission, but why did Black Sabbath turn to him in their own hour of need? There are few examples of Bev's true capabilities on the later ELO material especially, but to dismiss him outright is unfair. In a live capacity, he's always been a powerhouse, and for a while he even had to adjust his stick grip due to a serious wrist injury without compromising his speed or thunderous sound. Beyond his role behind the drums, Bev was just as much a public figure in ELO as Kelly, and I certainly won't deny him for helping to allow countless fans a chance at experiencing Jeff's work long after its creator had decided to focus on mostly producing other artists. No, I'm not usually one to be so forward, but in my opinion, Bev's place in history is sealed!
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Post by fourlittlediamonds on Feb 24, 2016 16:59:16 GMT
I agree Helmut,(thanks for the welcome) that the contributions of the other members were marginal to say the least and obviously no Jeff, no ELO. It's one of the problems of having such a dominant and singular creative force in a band that anyone else just becomes virtually musicians for hire, willingly or not. I suppose Jeff could have done a 'Steely Dan' and gone off , (probably with Richard Tandy) and quite happily existed in the studio, recording with the best session players he could recruit and do the same with a touring band. Clearly Jeff had major frustrations with what he could and couldn't achieve live and many of the bands members were interchangeable (as they would find out). But Bev, as a founding member and who along with Roy Wood , invited Jeff into the The Move, which led to ELO, and as a friend and colleague for 16 years, deserves a bit more consideration, I feel. (As far as his drumming is concerned, well, as Jeff said on the Greatest Hits note, it was "solid" and is a fair judgement I think. Although Bev does claim that he was one of the drummer's under consideration to replace John Bonham! I also agree that Jeff is a lot more the hard -headed businessman than people think. I read an interview with Melvyn Gale a while back and he (and I assume Hugh) still feels upset at the way they were sacked from the band by a formal, perfunctory letter from the management informing them their services were no longer required and their contracts were terminated forthwith- not a word from Jeff (or Bev for that matter) after six years together. And when Kelly sued, he soon discovered that as far as Jeff was concerned, he was always just an employee, on a fixed- fee contract, ready to be dropped at anytime.
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tl77
Full Member
Posts: 62
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Post by tl77 on Feb 24, 2016 19:56:21 GMT
I would never put Richard Tandy in the "other musicians" group in a "Jeff + other musicians" definition. I see it more like "Jeff & Richard + other musicians". Richard did an awful lot of stuff, he didn't just play keyboard parts. He even played lead guitar!
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Post by ash2 on Feb 24, 2016 20:28:56 GMT
I think Jeff is (how can I put this) very.....single minded and does not like others having a different opinion to his. I think the fact that Don Arden was such a strong character helped keep Jeff doing what he does best. Jeff is known for ditching people who do not have Jeff's view but without them he is not as good as he thinks he is. I don't mean that to sound bad but under Don and with Bev and Kelly that was ELO after 83 it turned south.
Could you imagine the crowd response if Jeff said "Ladies and gentlemen Mr Bev Bevan..."
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Post by BSJ on Feb 24, 2016 20:47:58 GMT
Could you imagine the crowd response if Jeff said "Ladies and gentlemen Mr Bev Bevan..." I think he'd be jealous!
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 24, 2016 21:21:48 GMT
I agree a lot with what you say, ash2 .
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 24, 2016 21:29:41 GMT
I agree a lot with what you say, ash2 . It's interesting cos I love Time, and it was pretty much a JL,RT and Mack album. I'm wondering if the loss of Mack was a bigger miss than the rest of ELO.
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 24, 2016 21:40:45 GMT
I would never put Richard Tandy in the "other musicians" group in a "Jeff + other musicians" definition. I see it more like "Jeff & Richard + other musicians". Richard did an awful lot of stuff, he didn't just play keyboard parts. He even played lead guitar! Yes, but we are still talking about playing instruments here. When it comes to the creative process, all I know Richard contributed was the intro to "Strange Magic".
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