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Post by jackpunch on Feb 22, 2016 19:00:41 GMT
Followind ShardEnder's reply to a question on the Secret Messages book I've been having a sniff around the Steve Hoffman forum. Now there's some really clued up people on there, but I noticed that there were quite a few comments that Jeff was still using backing tapes at Hyde Park.
My view is that it's utter drivel. I cant see how all of the band and orchestra would have agreed to effectively miming at times. I have no doubt that ProTools is bring using to augment some backing vocals now and again - Choral part of MBS being likely. But I was at Hyde Park and to my ears the sound was absolutely live.
Interestingly, the thread on Steve Hoffman died immediately someone said that they knew a few band members and intended on getting their views on being accused of miming.
Have to say I was pretty astonished by the idea. It had never crossed my mind that any of it wasnt live.
Horace people's thoughts please?
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Post by dillwyn on Feb 22, 2016 19:12:47 GMT
I thought the please turn me over was pre-recorded. Most live albums are ummmmm augmented afterward
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Post by Horacewimp on Feb 22, 2016 19:24:27 GMT
I watched the show live on the red button, admittedly I had a bad hangover from just coming back from a weekend away but I didn't ever think this is pre recorded.
As a business man I would be really annoyed to pay all those musicians only to find out they weren't actually required.
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Post by nickheynes on Feb 22, 2016 19:31:45 GMT
I was there and it struck me as being live .Having said that it may have been that the second keyboard player in addition to playing some string sounds was triggering some samples. The "whamabamalamabama" part of rock n roll is King being a prime example.I Don't really care. Guitars were live.bass was live .Drums were live. orchestra was live and most importantly Jeff was live. It was privilege to be there. .And I can't wait till April.
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 22, 2016 19:36:51 GMT
I was there and it struck me as being live .Having said that it may have been that the second keyboard player in addition to playing some string sounds was triggering some samples. The "whamabamalamabama" part of rock n roll is King being a prime example.I Don't really care. Guitars were live.bass was live .Drums were live. orchestra was live and most importantly Jeff was live. It was privilege to be there. .And I can't wait till April. Thats exactly my thoughts, but some bloke called Helmut, which confused me terribly to start with, is adamant the orchestra were miming and the majority of the gig was just the rerecordings that JL had completed in 2012. And a few others seemed to be agreeing with him. I too am looking forward to April, should be great. Just wish I'd had enough cash to get to more than one gig
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Post by Horacewimp on Feb 22, 2016 19:45:54 GMT
I think we should confirm that Helmut on the Steve Hoffman forum is from Germany and not connected with Helmut83 on this forum.
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Post by nickheynes on Feb 22, 2016 19:55:43 GMT
In addition to all that has been said above I can't think that the band would have needed to rehearse for as long as they did If they were going to mime.
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Post by eldorado on Feb 22, 2016 20:56:55 GMT
Anyone who was at the TFI might recall there was a false start, so that was certainly live. Whether some samples are used here and there is debatable of course.
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 22, 2016 21:09:54 GMT
I'd prefer to think no tracks of any kind were used, and nothing like ProTools or anything. If most, some sound effect here or there by the keyboard/synthetizer but no more than that. Otherwise it would feel less authentic. I'd rather take Mr. Blue Sky choral part not sounding so great than knowing it sounds great because some artificial trick is being used. What's live music about then?
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Post by dillwyn on Feb 22, 2016 21:31:00 GMT
Of course the band plays live why else would he need a 11+ piece group although they must have sequencers on board. They are a top session band look at their cv's.
I've used sequencers with a live band and they can be a nightmare, although if parts are triggered by an onstage musician it would help and it is just another instrument ... one thing with the new setup if you watch closely JL doesn't do much actual playing (apart from the solo's) as the band are filling in all the gaps which might give the illusion of a recorded set-up
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Post by unomusette on Feb 22, 2016 21:45:28 GMT
I agree with Horacewimp, the orchestra and band for Hyde Park will not have come cheap, why have them mime? And surely to make it all look as convincing as it did would take more effort than just to let them do what they do best? It is a big sound to recreate, but a band that is used to backing the likes of Take That on their massive stadium shows should take that in their stride. It certainly came across as live to me, especially Jeff forgetting the words now and then Perhaps the odd special effect sound here and there was pre-recorded, but I would be very surprised to find that any substantial elements were mimed.
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 22, 2016 23:16:29 GMT
The one potentially incriminating detail I remember from watching the live web stream is that there was a very brief shot of what appeared to be a laptop that showed a full track rather than just short samples, so it's possible at least some of the musicians were playing to pre-recorded tracks (probably Jeff's studio remakes) as either a guide or because certain elements were being used. Now, this is the really controversial part, but it's claimed you can layer some of the songs from Mr. Blue Sky over their Hyde Park "live" versions and see a lot of overlap that's far too precise for this to be coincidence. What can be agreed on is that Jeff's vocals certainly weren't canned, as he makes quite a few mistakes early in the set, which I seem to recall being the result of a stray light blocking his prompter. If you listen really carefully to the beginning of Evil Woman, Jeff wants to draw out his notes, yet is forced to keep with the same tempo as on the album - I get the feeling at least that section was locked in with something. On the other side of the argument, what reason would Jeff have to record a new version of Handle With Care? Of all the songs played that day, this and Roll Over Beethoven seem the most natural. However, there's a good chance Jeff may have provided us with a clue as to the identity of further outtakes from the Mr. Blue Sky, as it's known he had enough for a potential second volume. For whatever reason that album featured very little from 1979 and beyond, so could a follow-up include Rock 'N' Roll Is King in addition to the already-documented reworking of Steppin' Out? Furthermore, if he's supposedly revisited I'm Alive and possibly also Don't Go Away, would it be logical to assume All Over The World was another updated track? Without stating what side of the proverbial fence I sit on regarding this subject, I've presented some possible evidence, speculated a little and... Well, all I can hope is that if we do ever get another Mr. Blue Sky type release, Jeff updates Hold On Tight, Twilight and some of the '80s hits to the same standard he's already achieved. Oh, and if there aren't any issues with it not being a Lynne composition, I'd love for Roll Over Beethoven to get a new coat of paint, as I doubt there's much else from the early years he'd put on such a package.
P.S. Richard's vocoder parts are definitely pre-recorded... There's raw footage of him coming in too early for the "please turn me over" line during a more recent show, but on the official video, this has been edited out. I once read that he'd been relying on such a safety net back on the ill-fated Zoom Tour, as he was using his original vocoder, which is notorious for bein quite unreliable outside of a controlled studio environment. Saying that, if Richard still had his old vocoder, why did the band need to bring Dave Morgan in for the Time Tour? One of the reasons this allegedly happened is because he owned a vocoder, which ended up being the same one heard on not only the 1981-2 shows, but the Secret Messages sessions (notably Buildings Have Eyes and the early version of Tears In Your Life), plus his own album, Earthrise, recorded around the same period. My guess is that Richard's was out of service for a while, though I've never actually checked to see if what he was using more recently is the same as that featured on the vintage ELO material. Saying that, I'm not actually sure it is.
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Post by nickheynes on Feb 23, 2016 8:44:49 GMT
Why would RT his old vocoder if it was so unreliable? You can pick up a motif or mox keyboard which have got really great vocoder settings for not a lot of money at all. Also I seem to remember that Richards mistake was originally broadcast (think it was the radio 2 concert from the bbc radio theatre) or at least commented on, then corrected when the concert was repeated.
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Post by Buttler on Feb 23, 2016 16:33:37 GMT
I immediately noticed that his guitar probably wasn't plugged in.
Backing tapes? I don't know...
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 23, 2016 17:09:18 GMT
I immediately noticed that his guitar probably wasn't plugged in. Backing tapes? I don't know... Its plugged in, just kept out of the mix til there's a solo he's due to play.
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