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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 1, 2015 15:13:37 GMT
Fascinating! So the Balance Of Power sessions were actually from September 1984 to March '85? Whatever happened (either Jeff Lynne changing his mind or being forced to alter plans because of record label interference), it's stunning how delayed the album was considering that an initial release date was already promoted. I'm curious to know more about the demos completed before this point, as I've always suspected that In For The Kill dates from the Secret Messages era, since the lyrics almost perfectly describe the scrapped double album's cover, similar to how the final design was inspired by Hello My Old Friend - another song that ultimately didn't even make the cut.
Were you able to find out any more regarding the creation of specific tracks? I've read in the past that Mack supposedly remixed Endless Lies to better fit with the new material, but what of Send It? According to some, this started off as a studio experiment with Jeff playing guitar through to Bev's headphones, allowing him to play a triggered snare in time so they could build a new song around drum samples, and that it was originally called Technobilly, perhaps as a nod to Dave Edmunds. I'm curious to know who engineered this recording, as it sounds like another suggestion like that Mack gave Jeff late into the making of Discovery, which led to Don't Bring Me Down being made. On the other hand, it could also be from while Bill Bottrell was still involved or even something done with Tom Thiel.
Speaking of 1980s sessions, I know I've asked this before, but I'm just repeating my request for a copy of that picture taken by members of the ELO fan club at Wisseloord Studios in late '82 with Jeff, Bev and Richard. Supposedly, they tried explaining that Kelly had already left for the day, though I've since found evidence that suggests he was busy promoting his solo album and may even have been temporarily prevented from being involved with the group due to the lawsuit that escalated over the following months, resulting in him being kicked out by Jeff after management pushed for a settlement because of Jet Records not being in a financial position to pay out the demanded 25% of all royalties from 1975 to 1983.
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Post by pelo on Sept 2, 2015 9:44:58 GMT
According to Mack and Bev Bevan (his diary) the album was completely finished by the end of April 1985. Remix sessions took place in Munich in April, with Mack changing the overall sound of the album considerably. The delay of the album release, in my understanding, can mainly be put down to the change of the record company/management. I don't know if they already had plans for Heartbeat at that stage. Tom Thiel, who went with ELO to Munich and left after three days, claims that all (or nearly all) the songs had already been started before ELO came to Franken. He can't remember any outtakes, either. He also says that Jeff was obsessed with intonation in those days and that he mentioned that he might get the chance to work with George Harrison. He spent hours to get the vocals right, and even if all the other musicians liked what he had recorded, he often seemed frustrated, calling everything "rubbish". But Jeff always knew exactly what he was doing. What is also fascinating is that Tom Thiel remembers a lot about the studio itself. It was equipped with a 24 track Sony Digital unit, syncked with a 24 track Analogue/Dolby SR machine, and they had a 60 channel Solid State Logic mixing desk. Tom also sent us some pictures of the studio and the band working on the album. Peter Sutter, Eldorado: www.amazon.de/Eldorado-Reise-musikalischen-Traumwelten-Lynne-ebook/dp/B00NTD53N4www.elo-fanclub.dewww.face-the-music.de
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 2, 2015 14:52:50 GMT
The wealth of early mixes - many we've yet to hear - or songs that had their lyrics rewritten suggest that Balance Of Power did indeed nearly become a very different album to what we got in the end, though I'm curious as to why there are so many b-sides. My guess is that Caught In A Trap and Destination Unknown were too personal for either Jeff or his label to issue as main album tracks, while it's clear he's developed a problem with A Matter Of Fact since neither version of this was featured on the remaster from a few years back.
As for Jeff already talking about possibly getting to work with one of his heroes by the time of the '85 sessions in Germany, I suspect Dave Edmunds mentioned George Harrison wanting him at some point during the making of the tracks they did together for his Information project, since the chorus of Beatles Forever was recycled around this period for Video!, which may explain why this particular song wasn't dusted off for Balance Of Power yet other Secret Messages outtakes such as Endless Lies (and perhaps In For The Kill) were.
In many ways, I actually feel sorry for CBS since they'd just recently acquired the rights to distribute ELO's music. As a group that was still selling rather acceptable figures, it must have annoyed them to know that Jeff planned on leaving once he'd fulfilled his contractual obligations after releasing Balance Of Power, and this may be part of the reason they pushed the Afterglow boxed set so much, including putting out Destination Unknown as a promotional single and the name of a standalone sampler disc.
Maybe the reason Afterglow happened in the first place is because the powers that be already knew by this point that Jeff had turned down Bev's offer to reunite ELO, with Armchair Theatre on the horizon in addition to a second Traveling Wilburys album? If they'd planned to issue a retrospective collection earlier, perhaps this may also explain why No Way Out, Mandalay and Hello My Old Friend weren't similarly used for Balance Of Power, though it's possible Jeff simply didn't feel they would fit on that album musically.
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Post by elodoya24 on Sept 2, 2015 23:15:14 GMT
Yes- I would buy the book! I am so very pleased that I am a E.L.O. fan. This to me is a very interesting subject. Well you know something- I would probably buy a book on the making of any of the albums by E.L.O. Keep up the good conversation everyone!
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 4, 2015 22:26:17 GMT
I would probably buy a book on the making of any of the albums by E.L.O. Although my book is primarily going to be about the making of Secret Messages, for the sake of historical context I'll be dedicating quite a few pages to the Time album, its tour and even Balance Of Power, not to mention various other titles the members of ELO worked on around this period. I'm not sure how much coverage each will get at this point (because the editors have yet to get their hands on my finished work), but you can expect at least something about Kelly's solo effort, Earth Rise by Tandy/Morgan, Dave Edmunds' Information, The Everly Brothers' EB 84 and even Agnetha Fältskog's Eyes Of A Woman, plus Jeff Lynne's "solo" contributions to the Electric Dreams soundtrack. In addition to all of this, I'm also hoping to briefly reveal a few details regarding Discovery and Xanadu, not to mention the official disbanding of ELO in late 1988 along with exclusive accounts relayed to me concerning a split that almost occurred during the early '80s! As I've said before, if it wasn't for the focus of my research mostly being the Secret Messages sessions (with analysis of the Time Tour coming a very close second in terms of volume so far), I'd consider a wider-ranging title. At one point, I actually toyed with the idea of calling the end product Remember The Good Old 1980s, or at least that was the plan until I made a pitch to Bloomsbury for the chance to become a part of their 33 1/3 series...
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 29, 2015 17:44:15 GMT
I'll start by announcing that my book hasn't made it to the shortlist published just a few hours ago, though it's not all bad news as I'm no longer bound to Bloomsbury's rather tight 30,000 word count, meaning I can expand out to focus more on the Time Tour and initial Balance Of Power sessions, which I'd been hoping to cover in brief, anyway. This also means anything contributed by either Bill Bottrell or Dave Morgan doesn't necessarily have to be limited to the Secret Messages era, which is great for me since I've already received quite a few revelations that may not have otherwise made it into the finished product. At the moment I'm enjoying a little break from writing, but if all goes to plan I should resume contact with my interview subjects over the next few weeks before doing one final burst of researching, and then all I'll have left to do is put everything together. I won't give an exact release date, although I will thank everyone once again for their support... In addition to this coinciding with Jeff's new album, it's ironic that Secret Messages is close to reaching the 33 1/3 milestone, so my timing couldn't be much better! P.S. For those who've not been following this year's progress, here's the list of what titles may end up becoming part of Bloomsbury's acclaimed series on seminal albums from the past: 333sound.com/2015/09/29/open-call-2015-the-shortlist/(Weezer's Pinkerton deserves to be pitched and approved twice for the 33 1/3 treatment because of the potential for at least one author to cover its own troubled creation, yet I doubt many will agree with this being the case for Bangerz by Miley Cyrus as well. Also, while it may seem like a further case of sour grapes on my part, I have to ask as a massive Queen fan myself whether is it even possible for someone to hold the attention of many readers on the limited subject of the Flash Gordon soundtrack!)
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 29, 2015 19:08:46 GMT
Sorry to hear your book didn't make the shortlist ShardEnder, but for us fans it might be a blessing in disguise as it sounds like any publication you do release won't be restricted to just one album. Enjoy your writing break and come back refreshed knowing there are many fans who are eagerly waiting any publication you do release. Good luck for the future and if the forum can help you in any way please ask.
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Post by ash2 on Sept 29, 2015 19:16:43 GMT
When you are ready let us know so we can pre-order a copy, that way you will know how many to produce. In a way I'm glad you can now expand on the other albums. but I am also gutted you didn't make the list (arseholes)
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arnoldlayne
Junior Member
wohS ehT oT emocleW
Posts: 49
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Post by arnoldlayne on Sept 30, 2015 14:13:46 GMT
... I have to ask as a massive Queen fan myself whether is it even possible for someone to hold the attention of many readers on the limited subject of the Flash Gordon soundtrack!) The soundtrack made more money than the film. That's all you need to know.
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Post by ShardEnder on Nov 10, 2015 23:00:14 GMT
Since this book is aimed very much at the hardcore ELO fans, I thought you'd all appreciate another quick progress update...
In the guidelines for my original proposal to Bloomsbury, I was informed that my final book should be approximately 30,000 words. I've just put together all my research, interviews and notes (for subjects yet to be covered to my own satisfaction), with this makeshift document already exceeding their limit - maybe being rejected for the 33 1/3 series wasn't such a bad thing, after all? *groan*
At the moment, it's still too early for me to list the scope of my work so you know what to expect, but there are definitely a few major subjects I'll be tackling. One that I've been working on just today is putting together all the information currently scattered across various corners of the internet concerning exact production methods and equipment used on Time, later albums to follow.
One thing I will reveal is that the resulting book now has a title, which is "A Message From Another Time: ELO 1981-1986." I'd considered "Remember The Good Old 1980s?" until I realised there's quite a lot about this point in ELO's history that many of those involved would probably rather forget, such as Kelly's departure, Bev temporarily joining Black Sabbath and Jeff having private issues.
Finally, don't be surprised if I start asking for help with a few details over the next few weeks. There's only so much I can find out through my sources, and those I've been speaking with can't provide all the answers. Sometimes, it seems as if we're more enthusiastic and knowledgeable than the musicians or engineers responsible for creating the very music we've become attached to.
To date, nobody's attempted to dedicate this amount of page space to just a handful of albums, which usually only warrant a chapter or mere footnotes in wider-spanning pieces. I guess you could say this whole venture is very much one heading into uncharted territory as far as ELO is concerned, even though I'm currently proving it's definitely possible to do greater justice to this short era alone!
P.S. As for a tentative release date, how does the middle of next year sound? Not only would this aptly coincide with Jeff's return to the stage for his first full tour since 1986, but it's also the 33rd anniversary of Secret Messages, which is still the main topic.
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Post by BSJ on Nov 10, 2015 23:28:53 GMT
ShardEnder. Middle of the year is great, as well as your title!
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Post by thewordsofaaron on Nov 11, 2015 7:28:36 GMT
maybe its just me....but i dont think i would....
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Post by stumpybunker on Nov 11, 2015 10:17:03 GMT
Would be on this in a heartbeat! Glad there are people like you Shardender, who have the desire to create these works. All the best in getting this published!
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Post by eldorado on Nov 11, 2015 10:39:02 GMT
Sounds really interesting mate. I love the 80's era of the band, it's so underrated. Time may in fact be my fav ELO album, although Eldorado may share that title.
In your research did you ever come across alternate track listings for Time? I'm wondering where "When Time Stands Still", "Julie...", and "Bouncer" may have fitted in the narrative. They were obviously written with the concept in mind. If the album had been made in the CD age, surely those tracks would have made the cut. I like them more than a few of the tracks on the finished album.
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Post by ShardEnder on Nov 11, 2015 15:23:01 GMT
In your research did you ever come across alternate track listings for Time? I'm wondering where "When Time Stands Still", "Julie...", and "Bouncer" may have fitted in the narrative. They were obviously written with the concept in mind. If the album had been made in the CD age, surely those tracks would have made the cut. I like them more than a few of the tracks on the finished album. Despite there not being that much previously known about the Time period, I've managed to find out some truly fascinating details through my interviews and research, including specifics relating to a previously undocumented early acetate that had a very slightly different running order - it's hardly a bombshell on the level of the original Secret Messages double album sequencing, but still fascinating nonetheless (and something very possible for we hardcore fans to assemble using just the 2001 remastered edition, I should add)! I'd happily reveal more at this point, only I'm still learning a few things myself and it's not as if I can really do justice to such a lengthy subject without literally giving you all a considerable portion of my work for nothing. I hate to be that person, only I'm currently in negotiations with my publisher* about possibly releasing this book through them, and sneak previews may jeopardise its chances, as they've insisted that I don't leak anything from my other projects. Sorry... *For those who don't know, I'm also in the process of writing a series that has already been picked up for release once at least the first two installments are complete, with someone from the small company kindly helping me by having a look on regular intervals to offer suggestions of how the end results can be even better in terms of content and pacing. Unfortunately, they're not too open to the idea of putting out a study on what they consider an obscure musical topic, as their main line of business is purely fictional work. Indeed, I don't ever recall them issuing anything fact-based, so if they did consider picking up A Message From Another Time then it may be quite the milestone for all concerned.
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