|
Post by ash2 on Apr 13, 2015 6:27:16 GMT
TAKE MY MONEY NOW, I WANT THIS BOOK....
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Jun 2, 2015 17:01:38 GMT
Barely hours after they opened for submissions this year, I've sent my proposal - complete with sample first chapter - to Bloomsbury for their 33 1/3 series, the subject of my (now slightly revised) book the making of Secret Messages. In addition to covering the history of ELO up to the Time Tour in brief, I'm also going to be relying on the relevant information I've been kindly provided by Bill Bottrell and David Scott-Morgan. If successful, this means I won't be able to publish a wider-ranging study on Jeff Lynne's early-to-mid '80s work, but to be honest there isn't much I can't include in this outside a few details on the Balance Of Power sessions. With next year being the 33rd anniversary of its original release, I feel it's a perfect opportunity to celebrate this unfairly maligned album... if only Sony's Legacy division would similarly commemorate this date with a long overdue expanded Deluxe Edition!
|
|
|
Post by nickheynes on Jun 18, 2015 10:15:40 GMT
Barely hours after they opened for submissions this year, I've sent my proposal - complete with sample first chapter - to Bloomsbury for their 33 1/3 series, the subject of my (now slightly revised) book the making of Secret Messages. In addition to covering the history of ELO up to the Time Tour in brief, I'm also going to be relying on the relevant information I've been kindly provided by Bill Bottrell and David Scott-Morgan. If successful, this means I won't be able to publish a wider-ranging study on Jeff Lynne's early-to-mid '80s work, but to be honest there isn't much I can't include in this outside a few details on the Balance Of Power sessions. With next year being the 33rd anniversary of its original release, I feel it's a perfect opportunity to celebrate this unfairly maligned album... if only Sony's Legacy division would similarly commemorate this date with a long overdue expanded Deluxe Edition! Sounds fascinating. Come on Sony Pull yer Finger out!
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Jul 30, 2015 22:35:23 GMT
Well, it seems the open call for the next wave of 33 1/3 books has been far more successful than its publishers anticipated, with a staggering 605 proposals received in just a month! You can view the full list, my own buried deep in there, by following this link: 333sound.com/2015/07/29/open-call-2015-the-complete-list-of-albums-proposed-for-the-33-13-series/Of the others, here are a few I'd be particularly interested in reading about: Meat Loaf - Bat Out Of Hell Metallica - St. Anger The Beach Boys - Love You Weezer - Pinkerton XTC - Skylarking When you consider that Pinkerton was proposed by no less than six different writers, I'm in little doubt this album will definitely be chosen, which is great as my proposal included mention of it - I actually hailed it as being the '90s equivalent to notable unreleased titles from earlier decades that includes The Beach Boys' SMiLE, The Who's Lifehouse, heavily truncated to become the seminal Who's Next, and the complete Secret Messages. For those who aren't aware of its convoluted history, Pinkerton is best described as the "Smiley Smile" to what had been originally intended, which was a full-blown conceptual space opera called Songs From The Black Hole. If selected, there's no way the person given the task of handling this one is going to ignore the details of its troubled creation, so I'm hoping it makes the final shortlist. Being one of my all-time most played albums, Love You is perfect for the 33 1/3 treatment. Again, for anyone unfamiliar with its production, Brian Wilson had just recently made the first of what would ultimately prove to be two comebacks from years of substance abuse and psychological issues, spurred on by his on-off therapist, the controversial Dr. Eugene E. Landy. While the initial "Brian's Back" campaign and accompanying 15 Big Ones had shown the once untouchable genius in less than a negative light due to his still-fragile status (certainly not helped by his voice, ruined by neglect and then him deliberately taking up a chain smoking habit to sabotage the group's efforts to capitalise on his return and expectations they could milk him for more of the classic-sounding music that had made their name in the first place), Brian truly was on form once more with its immediate follow-up. I'm really crossing my fingers that if Love You is approved, the author will cover its initial piano demos, the plan for this to originally be a solo project entitled Brian Loves You and his brother Carl's role as Mixdown Producer, which involved him overdubbing various parts to flesh out Brian's flawed vision, plus the overlapping sessions for two further projects that never officially saw the light of day - one simply known as New Album and the later assembly, dubbed Adult/Child, rejected by Reprise Records in mid '77 yet finding its way out via the bootlegging circuit to become yet another polarising fan favourite. As for the others, St. Anger has a similarly interesting history that was already documented to a point in the movie, Some Kind Of Monster, though I suspect a lot remained on the cutting room floor due to that being a product approved by the band. The well-known conflicts between the members of XTC and producer Todd Rundgren make the recording of Skylarking another that has the potential to be a gripping read, not to mention its recent remastering, during which Andy Partridge and engineer Steven Wilson discovered the multitrack masters were missing and that all previously issued stereo tapes had reversed polarity that had gone unnoticed, meaning the end results were significantly compromised. Finally, if I didn't mention Meat Loaf's Bat Out Of Hell then I suspect my partner might have stern words for me, being a massive fan. So, there we go. If all goes to plan, I should find out whether I've been successful or not by around September, though I suspect this might be a case of wishful thinking on the part of the editor at Bloomsbury. I've been reliably informed that a final decision should definitely have been made by the end of the year, and naturally I'll keep you up to date on any progress. As I've said before, in the event of the worst case scenario, I have a backup plan that means I'll still be able to put out my book in a version that may be expanded to span all of ELO's 1980s era output, which I feel is criminally underrated when compared to their '70s hit-making period or the earlier, more experimental albums.
|
|
|
Post by spike on Aug 8, 2015 18:22:53 GMT
I for one (or many judging by the replies here) would be really interested in your book. I've always loved your informative posts regarding the "Garden Sessions" which you spoke about quite often on the old Chippa board, so if your book is an extension of this, and more, where do I send my money?
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Aug 11, 2015 18:40:12 GMT
As I said before, if all goes to plan then my book will be available next year as part of the 33 1/3 series, or at the very least through another publisher, since I've also got a deal for my fiction writing (which covers a wide range of titles at various stages in development). Since I last spoke at great length on the subject, I've learned quite a lot about the so-called Garden Rehearsals, though hopefully Dave Morgan and Bill Bottrell will be free to answer some follow-up questions I still have...
|
|
|
Post by ash2 on Aug 14, 2015 8:29:58 GMT
As I said before, if all goes to plan then my book will be available next year as part of the 33 1/3 series, or at the very least through another publisher, since I've also got a deal for my fiction writing (which covers a wide range of titles at various stages in development). Since I last spoke at great length on the subject, I've learned quite a lot about the so-called Garden Rehearsals, though hopefully Dave Morgan and Bill Bottrell will be free to answer some follow-up questions I still have... You are killing me....Tell me , Tell me , Tell me IF and I mean that in a nice way....if you don't get selected will you find some other way to publish what you have? Also Has there been any contributions from Jeff , Richard or Bev or even Mac ? AND At what point did Jeff get told he would not be allowed to do a double album and was any of the tracks changed (as in remixed) to accomadate a single album
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Aug 15, 2015 18:33:07 GMT
Let's see if I can't answer these questions in order...
As I've said before, my book will still be released even if it doesn't make the cut from Bloomsbury for their 33 1/3 series. I'm also in the process of writing several fiction titles that will be self-published through Amazon's KDP service, and there's nothing stopping me from putting out (an expanded version of) my ELO book as well.
Of course I'd love to get Jeff Lynne on board, but he's notorious for blocking off the handful of authors that have tackled his music in the past. Besides, it's clear that he isn't interested in releasing the full Secret Messages, so I doubt any request to interview him on this subject at length would get past his management.
As for Bev Bevan, I've been reliably informed that his brief period with Black Sabbath was a way of putting a brave face on what had become a very bad situation for him behind closed doors. I've already got more than my book, and while their relationship is still very much frosty, I'd hate to risk things between Bev and Jeff by making him speak about this point in time...
I might yet consider asking Mack for his insights, though he wasn't involved with the Secret Messages sessions. On the other hand, if I do end up going ahead with an expanded book that covers ELO's whole '80s era output, his insights into Time and the later Balance Of Power recordings could be invaluable, so I won't rule him out.
Richard would be a dream to get in touch with, as I have so many questions to ask. He's obviously just as important a factor to what many fans regard as the classic ELO sound than Jeff, and his "magic fingerprints" are all over Secret Messages, despite the fact large portions of this album - including the entirety of Letter From Spain - are Lynne solo tracks!
Finally, while I can't give a specific date for when someone made the order to reduce Secret Messages down to a single disc, this decision surely came after Jeff went to Allen Zentz in March 1983 to press two sets of test acetates. Of these, the last are dated 11/04/83 and contain the final 18 songs, complete with all crossfades.
In the process of editing down the final JET LX 527 master, it should be noted that the first side was not changed at all from its earlier 2LP counterpart, while an interim 04/03/83 assembly curiously ends with Rock 'N' Roll Is King rather than Hello My Old Friend, suggesting that Lynne dropped this idea then returned to it later.
The only track I know of that was remixed as such is After All, which was originally just a short 40 second interlude as opposed to the two-minute version issued as a b-side. On the other hand, you could argue this was merely an edit, similar to the slightly shorter Four Little Diamonds.
In terms of edits made after the fact, I believe the Afterglow compilers faded in Hello My Old Friend then did the same to its ending, causing the full ending to remain officially unreleased. However, I'm fairly sure the two less finger snaps at the start of No Way Out was, just like the clipped opening to Destination Unknown, an indexing error.
P.S. I know this sounds like I'm shooting myself in the foot, but if my 33 1/3 proposal doesn't work out then I'd actually be happy because it means I can expand the scope of the resulting book to incorporate more about Time and Balance Of Power - there's a surprising amount of context that can be gained by covering these albums in almost the same amount of detail.
Bloomsbury impose a rather tight word count of approximately 30k that means I'd have to drastically scale back even my initial first draft, but to be fair a lot of this is additional information that isn't entirely necessary to understand the creative process. On the other hand, I can imagine it would be invaluable to many fellow hardcore fans.
|
|
arnoldlayne
Junior Member
wohS ehT oT emocleW
Posts: 49
|
Post by arnoldlayne on Aug 17, 2015 17:05:09 GMT
ShardEnder,
I've recently discovered your posts all about Secret Messages here and on the Steve Hoffman forums and you've made me see the album in a whole new light. Reading up on Secret Messages with your insight has been fabulous and thanks for sharing the information; so much so I created an account to join in the with the discussions. Tracking down some of the songs left off SM has been wonderful. I'm still after the better quality version that you've mentioned rather than the camera rip on youtube. Today has mostly been spent futzing around with Hello My Old Friend (WOW, what a song, it stunned me on first listen and it's been on repeat ever since) and the various Welcome to the Show bits and bobs from Secret Messages and Rock & Roll Is King. I've done my best attempt at trying to make a reconstructed ending using your instructions (Choking Chimneys as a reference point ) -- it's clocking in a little bit under the time people seem to post by a few seconds but this time last week I didn't know about it or SM... and thought it was just 'That album that Four Little Diamonds comes from' -- How wrong I was!
Best of luck with the book and I look forward to joining in on here.
|
|
|
Post by livinthing on Aug 17, 2015 17:13:57 GMT
Welcome arnoldlayne, like your first post very much and with you (and many others ) am waiting in anticipation of shard enders book and basically any post by him.
|
|
|
Post by ash2 on Aug 23, 2015 11:04:26 GMT
Let's see if I can't answer these questions in order...SNIP See... it's that kind of detail that melts me inside and I feel like I am hearing the album afresh. listening to the song 'Letter from Spain' now knowing it was a Jeff solo effort will make me hear it differently... Brilliant stuff (and as for an expanded edition) If you get the deal (Fingers Crossed) I will buy the book if you release an expanded digital version I will buy that also (TIME and SM are in my top ELO albums) and the bitterness of Balance of Payments would be a cracking read. Thanks for the detailed reply.
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Aug 30, 2015 13:31:48 GMT
If I did end up expanding the scope of my book to include more on ELO's 80s output in general, I should emphasise right now that there isn't actually too much known about Balance Of Power except that initial sessions took place with Bill Bottrell at Compass Point and that the planned 1985 release was delayed because of Jeff's vision for the project clashing with expectations from CBS, who anticipated it being an upbeat, commercial effort. Despite advertisements promoting its original street date being published, Jeff reunited with Mack (after their previous disagreement over the mixing of Time, which led to the band looking for a new studio) in Germany to rework several of the tracks, dropping others and even creating one - Send It - in a last minute improvisation, also dusting off a Secret Messages era outtake to further boost the album's content.
As for the revelation about Letter From Spain, you may also be surprised to learn that it certainly wasn't the only Jeff Lynne solo track made available around this point. You've all probably been thrown off by the (fake) live introduction and Dave Morgan's prominent contributions, but Four Little Diamonds is another that's more Jeff than anyone else. Similarly, you could argue the same for Bluebird, Take Me On And On and at least the first half of Hello My Old Friend. On the subject of this album's planned closing statement, Richard once claimed that the best version of this and other songs were, in his opinion, recorded at Jeff's house prior to the proper sessions in Wisseloord commencing. I don't want to reveal too much as this early stage, though I will say that I've learned quite a lot about the misleadingly-titled Garden Rehearsals...
Now that I think about it, perhaps I could flesh out the 1985/6 sessions without resorting to excessive filler, as there's one particular connection between ELO and another musical project that even I've made in the past, though like so many others, I simply chalked this up to coincidence. Having researched the subject in greater length, it's possible that I've actually found a genuine link. However, as with so much regarding this book, I'm reluctant to say too much as I'm still waiting to hear back from some of the people I've asked for their perspective, including Bill Bottrell, who has a personal link with the two artists involved. Also, if my instincts are correct, then I might just be sitting on quite the exclusive, and I'd rather not risk jeopardising this if it means that I have something unique to help shift a few copies. Besides, I don't want to be putting false information out there!
|
|
|
Post by pelo on Aug 30, 2015 18:23:41 GMT
ShardEnderIn 2009 FTM Germany (issue 35) published a lengthy article on the "Balance Of Power" sessions which was based on an interview I and Patrik Guttenbacher did with Tom Thiel (who was the engineer in Untertrubach). In fact we learned A LOT about those sessions, the studio and the equipment used. I talk about this extensively in my book, "Peter Sutter - Eldorado", which is written in German, though. I also paid a visit to the country guest house in Egloffstein, which is a little village in Franken, not a town. I was invited to have a look at their guest book, and after some time found ELO's entry. I also contacted Mack who didn't really want to do a proper interview,but was able to answer some of my questions. He said that he actually came over to Egloffstein to discuss things before continuing work in Munich, and that the album was completely finished in April 1985 (no further remix).
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Aug 30, 2015 21:19:27 GMT
I've never read that particular issue of FTM, and my German is so rusty (it's been a whole 15 years since I last studied the language in high school!) that I'm probably going to need to hold out for an English version of your book. Still, the little information you just gave was quite an eye-opener for me. If there really was no further work done on Balance Of Power after April 1985, why did the album end up being delayed until the following year? Furthermore, if the band was recording in Germany at this point, when did the sessions in Nassau occur? I realise that Wikipedia is hardly the most reliable source at the best of times, but my understanding was that initial recording took place in the Bahamas during February '85 and that CBS rejected an early sequence of the material including several early mixes later included on the 2007 remaster as bonus tracks along with several that have yet to circulate, though a few were sold on a CDR acetate a few years back and others have been played by Rob Caiger at fan conventions in the past, such as the full-length, unedited alternate version of Heaven Only Knows plus at least one different take of Calling America that was supposedly more guitar-based. I'd always thought that Jeff, Bev and Richard went to Germany so that Mack could rework the album into what it ultimately became, which is where Send It was created as a late replacement for Destination Unknown - a more obvious lyrical description of how the band's leader felt about his situation in many ways. Even though he said there was no remixing, it's known that Mack definitely took the 1983 recording of Endless Lies and reworked this to better fit the overall sound of Balance Of Power. On the other hand, perhaps this wasn't his work, but rather one of the many undocumented titles featured on that mythical third disc of the April '83 acetates that is believed to contain single edits and test mixes. Could it be that Jeff happened to already have a different version of this song in the can that ironically matched the sound on Balance Of Power, similar to how it was rumoured for quite a while that The Bouncer was a Time era outtake remixed so as not to stand out as the b-side to Four Little Diamonds, which is a myth now finally laid to rest?
|
|
|
Post by pelo on Aug 31, 2015 12:58:22 GMT
I wasn't saying that there was no remixing. There was, but in early spring 1985.
Recording at Compass Point studios started in September 1984. It is known that Jeff had already demoed some songs prior to this. Since there was always something wrong with the studio equipment, those initial sessions weren't so much fun, though. That's why the band was looking for another studio which was also furbished with the Solid State Logic system that they were using at Compass Point. In a catalogue they hit upon the "Hartmann Digital", Hartmann being the name of its owner. Located in the countryside near Nuremberg, the studio back then was one of the best facilities worldwide.
After about 12 weeks of recording in the Bahamas ELO moved to Germany and spent 6 weeks in Franken (between January and March 1985). Bill Bottrell had to leave after two weeks due to other scheduled appointments, so Tom Thiel was in charge of the recording process from then on. The main focus at Hartmann Digital lay on the vocals, but Jeff still wasn't happy probably because of conflicting advice on the part of the record company. That's why he finally decided to have the album remixed by Mack in Munich.
|
|