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Post by kingofthehours2 on Oct 10, 2020 11:23:42 GMT
hi is there a Flac version of the Bug Club Balance of Power remasters?
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Post by kingofthehours2 on Oct 10, 2020 11:28:57 GMT
Thanks for the insight, as always we can rely on you to enlighten us. what was the moment that Jeff considered Kelly not to be a close friend and they became, sadly, permanently estranged?
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Post by Horacewimp on Oct 10, 2020 12:25:36 GMT
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Post by ShardEnder on Oct 10, 2020 17:21:04 GMT
Thanks for the insight, as always we can rely on you to enlighten us. what was the moment that Jeff considered Kelly not to be a close friend and they became, sadly, permanently estranged? That would have been the out of court settlement in October 1983 - part of the agreement was that Kelly would be fired with immediate effect, and Jeff put conditions in place to prevent him from ever trading on his association with ELO again, which continued all the way up to negotiations for Part II.
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Post by Timeblue on Oct 10, 2020 21:32:30 GMT
So when was the moment that Jeff and Bev actually fell out? when Jeff refused to tour, when Bev started part2, when Kelly joined part2? Was it earlier in Time or Secret Messages?
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Post by fireonhigh on Oct 11, 2020 9:23:20 GMT
So when was the moment that Jeff and Bev actually fell out? when Jeff refused to tour, when Bev started part2, when Kelly joined part2? Was it earlier in Time or Secret Messages? From what I've understood and read elsewhere Jeff and Bev's relationship was strained from the early 1980s during the Time tour. Then probably not helped by Bev's diminishing involvement in the recording process for the later albums and Jeff not wanting to tour. I think all negotiations for ELO part II were via lawyers (may just be because Jeff was in the USA and Bev in the UK) so it was probably more a gradual process of their friendship and relationship diminishing.
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Post by Timeblue on Oct 11, 2020 9:38:03 GMT
Yeah that's what I've always thought, Kelly's days were numbered as soon as he decided to take court action against Jeff so I'm wondering if there was a defining moment in Bev and Jeff's relationship that signalled the end of the dream. They were probably still on talking terms right up to part2 but Kelly joining would have tipped Jeff over the edge....
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Post by rooster on Oct 23, 2020 18:15:49 GMT
Re Kelly wanting 25% of royalties for his time in the band. I've read some bits that he had evidence of significant contributions to MBS but did he have serious proof that he contributed a quarter of all ELOs output during the golden years? If he did, surely that would've warranted much more than the £300k out of court settlement he got? Also, talking of payments. Were Richard & Bev "salaried" staff in the same way as others, just on much better money? Obviously Bev owned 50% of the ELO name but how did that translate into regular money while the band were active as opposed to a lump when Jeff bought him out? Just curious.
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Post by tightrope on Oct 23, 2020 23:47:42 GMT
Re Kelly wanting 25% of royalties for his time in the band. I've read some bits that he had evidence of significant contributions to MBS but did he have serious proof that he contributed a quarter of all ELOs output during the golden years? If he did, surely that would've warranted much more than the £300k out of court settlement he got? Also, talking of payments. Were Richard & Bev "salaried" staff in the same way as others, just on much better money? Obviously Bev owned 50% of the ELO name but how did that translate into regular money while the band were active as opposed to a lump when Jeff bought him out? Just curious. Just look at Kelly's lack of success after ELO and look at what Jeff went on to do after ELO. Any Question? Richard had far more to do with ELO's sound than anyone other than Jeff.
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Post by ShardEnder on Oct 24, 2020 10:10:50 GMT
WARNING: I've written quite a lot, but only because I feel recent questions warrant a more comprehensive answer, plus I feel bad for being so quiet in regards to my book over the last few months. Before I continue, please be assured that it's slowly progressing, though current events mean there is little priority for such a niche project.
On paper, Kelly's solo career should have been a much bigger success. He was signed to a major label, his album launched off the back of ELO's last UK number one LP and simultaneously with European leg of its corresponding tour, plus he'd even splashed out £40,000 (the same figure as the record-setting Hold On Tight video from just a few months earlier) to license a piece by Lichtenstein for a single cover. Furthermore, the promo clip for Am I A Dreamer made it to the highest rotation tier on a fledgling MTV, which not even the videos for Rock 'N' Roll Is King and Secret Messages could manage. Despite there being so much of a push from all involved, that effort didn't apparently translate into sales. Was the end product that bad, or were there other factors at play?
First of all, there was the matter of Jeff instructing his colleagues not to continue making promotional appearances in support of Kelly after just two notable instances - a slot on German programme Musikladen along with the aforementioned Am I A Dreamer video, which featured Bev, Mik and Lou. Between these episodes and some copies of the album featuring a sticker that emphasised Kelly's background as a member of ELO, it was inevitable that connections would be made. I've heard that Jeff even had reservations about how close Kelly's album sounded to recent band material, specifically from the late '70s. Now, this wouldn't have likely been as much of a problem if Jeff himself wasn't desperate to reinvent ELO after taking the "kitchen sink" approach to its logical conclusion on Discovery and Xanadu. Still, if fans wanted more of that, did Kelly's output deliver the goods?
In terms of pure songwriting, it's definitely got a few standout moments, though you could argue that it had all the superficial similarities to classic ELO without the two most important aspects, both coming from Jeff. Vocally, there's a case to be made for Kelly not having what it takes to carry an entire album, which is a criticism similarly applicable to his lyrics. On a musical level, this was easily the closest we got to ELO, and I suspect a lot of that can be attributed to Richard, who applied some of the same magic to Earthrise just a few years later. One complaint I'll definitely agree with is that Kelly's work fell short of the standard set by ELO because of its sound quality. Despite seeking out Vlado Meller as a result of him previously engineering Discovery, the vocals on Kelly's album were recorded with distortion and sibilance already baked in, and no amount of mixing or mastering was going to fix that.
Alas, fixing was deemed necessary for the later US edition, which also saw a few tracks switched out and more up-to-date photographs taken for its cover. Even before RCA had been able to evaluate its success, Kelly had already finished most of the material for a follow-up, reported in contemporary articles as being scheduled for a spring '84 release under the title of Lights Out, almost certainly in reference to the outcome of the October '83 lawsuit, and perhaps even intended to set the record straight as to what happened in that case. Of course, Kelly never got that chance, as he was dropped from the label, most of his settlement money going to paying off the advances for nearly two full albums that were recorded on credit arranged by his manager, Peter Kuys, under the assumption success would be guaranteed.
We all know how that turned out, but to end for now, I'd like to highlight a key detail of Kelly's court dispute. The reason Jeff made that final offer of £300,000 was because Kelly had threatened to sell his story to a British tabloid newspaper, claiming he was in possession of conclusive proof that four ELO songs - Strange Magic, Mr. Blue Sky, Sweet Is The Night and Midnight Blue - included enough of his input that he should be entitled to a percentage of royalties, as advised by his manager upon learning he was about to become a father for the fourth time. In the last years of his life, Kelly became a lot more open about this decision, admitting that it was made out of desperation, though not fabrication. We'll likely never hear what existed of those contested tracks in their earliest demo forms, though at the same time, do we need to?
Jeff's normal method for recording embryonic ideas is rarely to go beyond a single verse and chorus, but once you get past those two elements of Mr. Blue Sky, the song takes a sudden turn that is a lot more consistent with Kelly's writing style. Also, Strange Magic and Midnight Blue have similar diversions, plus it's known that at least the verse melody of the latter was derived from a circulating demo for Poor Little Fool, while Kelly took to performing Midnight Blue with slightly different lyrics. Was that his way of letting the world know what he brought to the proverbial table? Nobody can be entirely sure unless Jeff finally opens up about this subject, though I'd like to believe that Kelly's vocal showcase on Sweet Is The Night was something he wrote. On a related matter, didn't he once say that Jeff allowed him the freedom to arrange his own background parts?
More recently, Rock 'N' Roll Is King has been raised as yet another ELO song Kelly was involved in arranging, if not helping with the writing process. We know this originally had different lyrics and was called Motor Factory, then Jeff wiped only his lead vocal from the multitrack, retaining the wordless backing parts by Kelly and Dave. As an interim solution, Jeff tried out a set of semi-autobiographical placeholder words he'd previously fit over the instrumental to what later surfaced as Latitude 88 North, these being about a jaded rocker named Johnny who grew tired of touring the world. According to sheet music provided by Lou via Facebook, it seems one of the tracks he conducted strings for that had been intended to appear on Lights Out was Rock 'N' Roll Fever, recorded in March '83 and left on a shelf for a decade until surfacing on the OrKestra album, Roll Over Beethoven. Coincidence?
If you're still in any doubt that there's fire behind all this smoke, how about Jeff's ASCAP profile being updated far more recently to list several tracks previously believed to have been solely authored by ELO Part II personnel without his input? Until I saw it for myself, I wouldn't have suspected Jeff of having anything to do with the likes of Whiskey Girls, but unless he registered these tracks as a way of blocking Part II/The Orchestra from generating revenue by putting its catalogue on streaming services, where its releases are presently absent, there isn't any other logical explanation. All this would be relatively simple to fix if only Jeff was more open about the kind of questions he'd respond to from journalists, yet he only ever discusses a small range of topics. In fact, it's almost as if he makes them pick from a select menu or sorts. I'd love to be able to say more, but there are lines I'm aware not to cross. Where possible, I'll always share what I can, though you just never know who might be lurking...
P.S. In the years following Roy's departure and before Jeff legally became the sole owner of all rights to the ELO name, Bev shared the same basic income. Naturally, Roy and Jeff enjoyed the perks of writing royalties, while Richard was apparently paid a retainer that put him above everyone else in the band. During the period ELO had a core four-piece of Jeff, Bev, Richard and Kelly, each also received further money via lucrative endorsement and sponsorship deals with instrument manufacturers. Whether they were recording or touring, the others were on a salary provided by Jet Records, which is why Kelly's lawsuit originally went after the label instead of the person who ultimately chose to accept him into the band. As their primary songwriter and most wealthy member by far, Jeff became a target of Kelly's case, which came at the cost of not only their working relationship, but any lingering friendship. Between reaching that settlement in October '83 and his untimely passing, Kelly never stopped trying to reach out to Jeff, but as we know from others, his method for dealing with any kind of what he perceives as a personal betrayal is to permanently close the door on potential reconciliation.
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Post by rooster on Oct 26, 2020 15:22:47 GMT
In terms of pure songwriting, it's definitely got a few standout moments, though you could argue that it had all the superficial similarities to classic ELO without the two most important aspects, both coming from Jeff. Vocally, there's a case to be made for Kelly not having what it takes to carry an entire album, which is a criticism similarly applicable to his lyrics. I mean no disrespect but I've always thought that Kelly's lead vocal was too weak to carry even one track let alone an album. Sweet is the Night for example, when Jeff comes in after him it sounds so much richer and fuller. No denying that Kelly and Jeff harmonising was a joy. We all know how that turned out, but to end for now, I'd like to highlight a key detail of Kelly's court dispute. The reason Jeff made that final offer of £300,000 was because Kelly had threatened to sell his story to a British tabloid newspaper, claiming he was in possession of conclusive proof that four ELO songs - Strange Magic, Mr. Blue Sky, Sweet Is The Night and Midnight Blue - included enough of his input that he should be entitled to a percentage of royalties, as advised by his manager upon learning he was about to become a father for the fourth time. In the last years of his life, Kelly became a lot more open about this decision, admitting that it was made out of desperation, though not fabrication. We'll likely never hear what existed of those contested tracks in their earliest demo forms, though at the same time, do we need to? £300k then is just over £1m today - £75k a song if there really was evidence of a major contribution by Kelly. You said elsewhere that Kelly thought he was due 25% of all royalties from the golden age - that would have been a lot more amounts of £75k if he really felt he could prove it?
Jeff's normal method for recording embryonic ideas is rarely to go beyond a single verse and chorus, but once you get past those two elements of Mr. Blue Sky, the song takes a sudden turn that is a lot more consistent with Kelly's writing style. Also, Strange Magic and Midnight Blue have similar diversions, plus it's known that at least the verse melody of the latter was derived from a circulating demo for Poor Little Fool, while Kelly took to performing Midnight Blue with slightly different lyrics. Was that his way of letting the world know what he brought to the proverbial table? Nobody can be entirely sure unless Jeff finally opens up about this subject, though I'd like to believe that Kelly's vocal showcase on Sweet Is The Night was something he wrote. On a related matter, didn't he once say that Jeff allowed him the freedom to arrange his own background parts? We've all seen numerous quotes from Bev, Kelly and others at how much time they spent sitting around or kicking a ball about while Jeff (with Richard/Mack) spent ages constructing tracks - they would get called in for their specific parts. That approach doesn't suggest much in the way of contribution by others. If you're still in any doubt that there's fire behind all this smoke, how about Jeff's ASCAP profile being updated far more recently to list several tracks previously believed to have been solely authored by ELO Part II personnel without his input? Until I saw it for myself, I wouldn't have suspected Jeff of having anything to do with the likes of Whiskey Girls, but unless he registered these tracks as a way of blocking Part II/The Orchestra from generating revenue by putting its catalogue on streaming services, where its releases are presently absent, there isn't any other logical explanation. All this would be relatively simple to fix if only Jeff was more open about the kind of questions he'd respond to from journalists, yet he only ever discusses a small range of topics. In fact, it's almost as if he makes them pick from a select menu or sorts. I'd love to be able to say more, but there are lines I'm aware not to cross. Where possible, I'll always share what I can, though you just never know who might be lurking... Forgive my ignorance of the ASCAP process but I don't understand this - how can Jeff register a song that was written by someone else? Or at least wouldn't those other writers also have to be registered? On that basis, why couldn't/didn't Kelly register MSB if he'd contributed that significantly to it?P.S. In the years following Roy's departure and before Jeff legally became the sole owner of all rights to the ELO name, Bev shared the same basic income. Naturally, Roy and Jeff enjoyed the perks of writing royalties, while Richard was apparently paid a retainer that put him above everyone else in the band. During the period ELO had a core four-piece of Jeff, Bev, Richard and Kelly, each also received further money via lucrative endorsement and sponsorship deals with instrument manufacturers. So Kelly did get more money than the others (string section) then?
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Post by nickheynes on Nov 12, 2020 22:27:43 GMT
Back to Secret Messages.I've seen a Japanese version which includes everything except Beatles forever and adds Video! and Let it run.Was this an official release?
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Post by ShardEnder on Nov 13, 2020 8:08:58 GMT
Back to Secret Messages.I've seen a Japanese version which includes everything except Beatles forever and adds Video! and Let it run.Was this an official release? That's definitely not official - the only authorised expanded Japanese versions are the 2001 remaster and 2019 BSCD2 edition.
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