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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 21, 2020 3:22:47 GMT
I think it's very likely that the Shardender person meant that Kelly was banned from recording sessions from August 1982, then finally sacked in October 1983. In between, his solo album came out in the US, bombed, and his lawsuit continued. It's been stated that neither Kelly or Mik were a part of any recording after the initial 4-song session done back while the Time tour was still going on. But Dave Morgan was there; whether he did more than his backing vocal credit on the album indicates is an open question. The "flying sessions" during the Time tour must have been during February, 1982, and perhaps early March when the group was touring Europe, correct? I'm certain Dave Morgan played the Fairlight that produced the dog barking sound. Although I doubt much "playing" was involved. He probably did more for the album, but has never been credited.
I think of ShardEnder as an historian of ELO. She's been teasing us with tidbits from a book about the recording of the Secret Messages album for so long. Getting the dates correct would be basic for a chronicler of the details of history. What she said about the timeline for Kelly's involvement didn't add up. Kelly was banned from the studio after the release date of the album? Huh? Of course she's entitled to make a mistake, but I'd like to hear the correct timeline from her.
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 21, 2020 3:59:27 GMT
I'm not sure where such confusion has set in, but here's a very rough timeline of the key events relevant to Kelly's departure:
February 1982 - the "flying visit" to Wisseloord Studios takes place, which is the last recording session to feature Kelly and Mik. March 1982 - after the conclusion of the Time Tour, Kelly launches a case against Jet Records, claiming he is owed unpaid royalties. August-December 1982 - the main bulk of Secret Messages is recorded, and Kelly ends up being frozen out while his lawsuit continues. December 1982 - the band shoots a promo video for Rock 'N' Roll Is King, featuring Kelly in a role he receives no payment for. January-March 1983 - Jeff alone resumes work with Bill Bottrell to overdub, remix and supervise finished mastering of Secret Messages. February 1983 - Kelly makes a solo appearance on American Bandstand, describing himself as still very much a member of the band. Spring 1983 - Kelly appears with the band for the last time during the Secret Messages video, again not being paid for this. June 1983 - Jeff makes an appearance on Rockline, where he described the band as consisting of himself, Bev, Richard and Kelly. October 1983 - Kelly and Jeff settle out of court after the former turns the focus of his case from their employer to his bandmate.
Hopefully that clears things up a little, though I'm planning to provide a lot more detail at some point in the near future...
P.S. Jeff used a Fairlight CMI (specifically the Series IIx model) for the first and last time on the Electric Dreams tracks, recorded in 1984 - for Secret Messages, Dave was using his modified Oberheim DMX, referred to as "Dennis" during the sessions, which he later gutted to wire into his Korg Polysix to create an arpeggiator before the MIDI standard had been introduced.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 21, 2020 5:01:12 GMT
I'm not sure where such confusion has set in, but here's a very rough timeline of the key events relevant to Kelly's departure: February 1982 - the "flying visit" to Wisseloord Studios takes place, which is the last recording session to feature Kelly and Mik. March 1982 - after the conclusion of the Time Tour, Kelly launches a case against Jet Records, claiming he is owed unpaid royalties. August-December 1982 - the main bulk of Secret Messages is recorded, and Kelly ends up being frozen out while his lawsuit continues. December 1982 - the band shoots a promo video for Rock 'N' Roll Is King, featuring Kelly in a role he receives no payment for. January-March 1983 - Jeff alone resumes work with Bill Bottrell to overdub, remix and supervise finished mastering of Secret Messages. February 1983 - Kelly makes a solo appearance on American Bandstand, describing himself as still very much a member of the band. Spring 1983 - Kelly appears with the band for the last time during the Secret Messages video, again not being paid for this. June 1983 - Jeff makes an appearance on Rockline, where he described the band as consisting of himself, Bev, Richard and Kelly. October 1983 - Kelly and Jeff settle out of court after the former turns the focus of his case from their employer to his bandmate. Hopefully that clears things up a little, though I'm planning to provide a lot more detail at some point in the near future... P.S. Jeff used a Fairlight CMI (specifically the Series IIx model) for the first and last time on the Electric Dreams tracks, recorded in 1984 - for Secret Messages, Dave was using his modified Oberheim DMX, referred to as "Dennis" during the sessions, which he later gutted to wire into his Korg Polysix to create an arpeggiator before the MIDI standard had been introduced. Thank you ShardEnder. I always get my electronic instruments mixed up. So it was the Oberheim DMX percussion machine, not the Fairlight emulator, that was used to produce the dog sounds.
And what had my head spinning was that you said Kelly was frozen out of recording sessions in August, 1983, not 1982. I knew the Secret Messages album was released before August, 1983, so I was confused. But it was just a typo.
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 21, 2020 7:37:46 GMT
Extended outro
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Post by Timeblue on Sept 21, 2020 8:45:03 GMT
I'm not sure where such confusion has set in, but here's a very rough timeline of the key events relevant to Kelly's departure: February 1982 - the "flying visit" to Wisseloord Studios takes place, which is the last recording session to feature Kelly and Mik. March 1982 - after the conclusion of the Time Tour, Kelly launches a case against Jet Records, claiming he is owed unpaid royalties. August-December 1982 - the main bulk of Secret Messages is recorded, and Kelly ends up being frozen out while his lawsuit continues. December 1982 - the band shoots a promo video for Rock 'N' Roll Is King, featuring Kelly in a role he receives no payment for. January-March 1983 - Jeff alone resumes work with Bill Bottrell to overdub, remix and supervise finished mastering of Secret Messages. February 1983 - Kelly makes a solo appearance on American Bandstand, describing himself as still very much a member of the band. Spring 1983 - Kelly appears with the band for the last time during the Secret Messages video, again not being paid for this. June 1983 - Jeff makes an appearance on Rockline, where he described the band as consisting of himself, Bev, Richard and Kelly. October 1983 - Kelly and Jeff settle out of court after the former turns the focus of his case from their employer to his bandmate. Hopefully that clears things up a little, though I'm planning to provide a lot more detail at some point in the near future... P.S. Jeff used a Fairlight CMI (specifically the Series IIx model) for the first and last time on the Electric Dreams tracks, recorded in 1984 - for Secret Messages, Dave was using his modified Oberheim DMX, referred to as "Dennis" during the sessions, which he later gutted to wire into his Korg Polysix to create an arpeggiator before the MIDI standard had been introduced. Thank you ShardEnder. I always get my electronic instruments mixed up. So it was the Oberheim DMX percussion machine, not the Fairlight emulator, that was used to produce the dog sounds.
And what had my head spinning was that you said Kelly was frozen out of recording sessions in August, 1983, not 1982. I knew the Secret Messages album was released before August, 1983, so I was confused. But it was just a typo.
You say that Kelly turns his focus to Jeff in October 83, so at what point then did he abandon his case with Jet and go for Jeff, was it after June 83?
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 21, 2020 12:05:41 GMT
WARNING: I'm motivated and on classic form right now...
There wasn't really a specific point, but rather a gradual change in approach. Kelly's original motivation for launching a case against Jet Records was him learning that Jeff was in the process of recovering $4m swindled from him after the company switched from UA to CBS as its distributor, which saw perfectly good copies of Out Of The Blue discounted (along with counterfeits produced by a label in the US) as defective products that could then be sold directly to retailers. Due to his help in discovering and then investigating this scam, Jeff went on to promote Craig Fruin from ELO's road manager on the Time Tour to his personal manager, while Kelly signed with Peter Kuys, who helped finance his first solo album. Around the same period, Richard entered into a business partnership with Brian Leahy, who was instrumental in funding the Earthrise project, though Bev remained loyal to Don Arden.
With all these factors in play, Kelly revealed that he was about to become a father for the fourth time, but felt he wasn't earning a fraction of what the other core ELO members did. Jeff received the most, followed by co-founder Bev, and Richard was on a retainer that included a lucrative sponsorship deal with Yamaha that only ended in '81. Indeed, Jeff and Richard were earning so much they they both spent an amount living abroad as tax exiles, though Bev preferred to remain in the UK. By contrast, Kelly first went to ask the Ardens for a raise, since his solo contract didn't include the normal advance you'd expect. His studio fees were to be paid after the fact by RCA, and for a while, it seemed as if this Kelly's LP and first two singles would seriously overtake recent ELO activity. One detail lost on many today is that the music video for Am I A Dreamer was in top rotation on a fledgling MTV, which not even his main band could manage with both promos from Secret Messages. Despite this and various appearances on shows filmed mostly between dates on the Time Tour, the exposure didn't translate into sales.
Worst of all, Secret Messages became ELO's first album since On The Third Day not to reach at least gold certification status, and the biggest casualty of this was Jet, already hurting from Jeff's decision to not embark on a tour in support of the LP. Not long after its release, fans and journalists were speculating on the group's future, with Jeff announced as being involved with recording the Electric Dreams soundtrack, Richard joining Dave on Earthrise and Bev temporarily going on the road as part of Black Sabbath. Aware that Jet wouldn't have the financial answers he sought, Kelly was advised by his manager to change tact and go after a newly flush Jeff, threatening to sell proof to a tabloid newspaper that he'd contributed to four tracks. In return for his silence, he'd asked for 25% of all royalties from his joining ELO in late '74 to the end of '83, anticipating that his massive payout would include him burning any remaining bridges. However, Jeff's lawyers orchestrated a settlement in late October '83, and Kelly was indeed dismissed from ELO, also being prevented from trading on his association with the band ever again. That last detail would keep him off ELO Part II's first album, and wasn't renegotiated until so late into the sessions for Moment Of Truth that he was barely able to contribute much except a new version of The Fox, written about his situation.
Rewinding a little, another detail that's rarely mentioned is how Kelly was so desperate for his solo career to provide the financial support his family needed that he finished most of a second album before the first had even been released in America. This was scheduled for spring '84 and would have been called Lights Out as an intentional hint that he wanted to set personal matters to music in a way Jeff later did on Balance Of Power and Zoom, but this wasn't to be. After such initial promise, RCA quietly dropped Kelly from its roster, and most of his settlement ended up paying off his outstanding studio costs. According to his son, the late Chris "Kit" Groucutt, Kelly spent the next few months so depressed that he rarely left the family's couch, lost without any way to engage with the fans he so dearly loved. However, an opportunity came to use his talent for a worthy cause with the We Love Animals single, which benefited the RSPCA, and slowly but surely, further avenues opened up. With ELO reduced down to a trio in the studio and only a handful of what turned out to be their final live shows planned for '86, Mik and Kelly reconnected, seeking to relaunch as Player, later becoming OrKestra when a '70s group of the same name as their original choice reformed.
I know there's been some animosity and even questioning of why someone would feel the need to bring any of this up, but my goal has always been to simply document what happened to the best of my ability. Right up to when they shook hands for the last time, I've been reliably informed that Jeff wanted to keep the door open for Kelly, who he considered a very close friend. The whole band had been screwed over in different ways, and just like true individuals, each person handled that differently. Jeff grew to instinctively trust Craig as the kind of shrewd manager Don Arden had been from more of a distance, Richard found a new collaborative partnership in the Tandy Morgan Band, and Bev kept close to the dwindling Jet family empire, which used its limited resources to build connections that ensured ELO Part II would launch into the world with good intentions that didn't translate into much beyond live ticket sales. At every step, Kelly thought he was doing the right thing, even if he'd later speak of regret at how things turned out. Still, when the guys in Part II and later The Orchestra offered him a chance in the spotlight, he grabbed that like his life depended on it, growing into someone we certainly won't forget in a hurry.
No one person can be blamed for how things turned out, even if I'm sure most of us would have preferred a happier ending through a reunion. The point is that Jeff became part of the problem in many ways, only without compromising his artistic vision, whether you agree with that or not. Richard positioned himself to do whatever he could as Jeff's right hand man until this was no longer possible, yet Bev, Kelly, Mik and the others in Part II/The Orchestra opted to do their best to keep the lights on. For all their creative flaws, those guys brought mostly Jeff's music to audiences he'd never visited while trying to forge ahead. Yes, I'll be covering some degree of disharmony. If anything, it might be more disingenuous if I tried ignoring this. When my finished work is made available, I can only hope you'll see it as a celebration of the good points with necessary reflection on the darkness. That's just life, and the highlights of what ELO accomplished deserve to far outweigh any negatives. Long may generations sing and dance to these great little tunes while not forgetting what it took for this to happen, because the band's catalogue has entered its fiftieth year without losing any of its brilliance!
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Post by Timeblue on Sept 21, 2020 12:20:04 GMT
Thanks for the insight, as always we can rely on you to enlighten us.
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 21, 2020 14:11:40 GMT
WARNING: I'm motivated and on classic form right now...
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Post by Chippa on Sept 21, 2020 19:01:34 GMT
So is it fair to say that had the perpetually shady Don Arden not screwed Jeff out of $4 million,Kelly might have stayed a part of the ELO lineup and the friendship between he and Jeff could have been saved?
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Post by Timeblue on Sept 21, 2020 19:38:26 GMT
Another thing I don't understand is why Bev stayed loyal to Jet even though Jeff had been conned out of £4million, Were there fractures in their friendship at that time?
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 21, 2020 20:41:08 GMT
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Post by nickheynes on Sept 21, 2020 21:25:19 GMT
You can download all of the tracks in FLAC if you email The Bug Club. I got them. Their email is in their YouTube info. Listened on the stereo via a CD-RW to check it out yesterday! I must be as thick as mud cos .ive subscribed to the bug club's you tube channel and can't see an email address anywhere!! Any clues?
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 22, 2020 1:01:36 GMT
Another thing I don't understand is why Bev stayed loyal to Jet even though Jeff had been conned out of £4million, Were there fractures in their friendship at that time? That does indeed remain something of an unsolved mystery, though Bev seems to have been the least harmed by Don's business practices. If anything, they were probably on the best terms, as Don signed to become The Move's new manager in 1968, plus he was likely involved with Bev's joining Black Sabbath as a touring drummer, since that band was also signed to Jet. In return for Bev's continued loyalty, ELO Part II had a phenomenal amount of money thrown at them initially, which is all the more remarkable when you consider that Don's empire was left ruined by 1991. Also, it's been documented that Kelly in particular felt somewhat distant from his bandmates until '94, when Philip Ackrill took over as their manager. Bev and Jeff independently said more recently that they'd not spoken in thirty years, but while I originally thought this was unlikely, if not outright impossible, perhaps there's a degree of truth to that? Was their friendship already broken down to more of a working relationship built on tolerance or even communication through mostly their respective lawyers/managers by the end of ELO's original run?
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 22, 2020 7:59:07 GMT
You can download all of the tracks in FLAC if you email The Bug Club. I got them. Their email is in their YouTube info. Listened on the stereo via a CD-RW to check it out yesterday! I must be as thick as mud cos .ive subscribed to the bug club's you tube channel and can't see an email address anywhere!! Any clues? thebugclub@protonmail.com
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Post by nickheynes on Sept 22, 2020 11:11:50 GMT
I must be as thick as mud cos .ive subscribed to the bug club's you tube channel and can't see an email address anywhere!! Any clues? thebugclub@protonmail.com Thanks Horace!!
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