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Post by BSJ on Mar 28, 2019 18:27:34 GMT
Now there will be rumors of Jeff being drunk when he mess's up singing or playing. Nice.
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Post by jackpunch on Mar 28, 2019 20:45:55 GMT
There are claims on this thread of lip synching in ELO concerts, although the poster wasn't clear about who was doing it. I see claims that there was an isolated lead guitar line from the RRHOF that was "terrible," but the clip has somehow disappeared. I have seen Richard forget to lean over to the microphone when he was supposed to be lip synching "Please Turn Me Over." On the other hand, I've seen Jeff make scores of vocal mistakes when I was right there in front of him at the concert venue. He wasn't lip synching then. Jeff has played his guitar solos brilliantly at many concerts. Yes, I know how a guitar is played. No, I'm not very good at it, but Jeff is. I suspect Jeff was pretty wasted at the RRHOF ceremony. He's always been nervous about speaking in front of crowds, and seems to have used alcohol over the years as a way to calm himself. It's hard to play brilliantly when you've had a few too many. Does he ever deserve a break? I'd say the harm of these public discussions when there is so little evidence presented is the damage they do to Jeff's reputation. People who never comment read it. The message they take away is "Jeff Lynne is a fake." They repeat that to their off line friends. Let's imagine what you are saying is true. Do you want Jeff's last public years besmirched with controversy and scandal? Do you want him to retreat from the public eye in disgrace? I don't want that. I'd like to look back on his last years as a triumphant return to playing the music I loved. The music we all love. Please don't spoil it. Please. I'm sorry Jeff is not a very good guitar player. He's an incredible songwriter, singer, arranger and producer, but he's a mediocre guitar player, beginners standard piano player and similar drummer. People commenting on lip syncing are entitled to do so, but having seen Jeff play live 8 times in 4 years I can dismiss that as utter claptrap. He sings behind the beat so often it would be impossible to lip sync. Is there some tidy up on the live recordings that have been released, absolutely. Every band does it.
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Post by Helmut83 on Mar 28, 2019 21:03:26 GMT
Something that shouldn't be lost in perspective is that we are all Jeff Lynne fans here. Personally, I admire him a hell of a lot, to the point that seven years ago I had to search for a space on the internet where I could share this admiration with people who felt the same way, because in the real world I felt like I was alone and no one else understood, knew or appreciated how much of a genius Jeff is. I still feel the same way about him, for me music is all about songwriting and Mr Lynne is one of 3 superlative songwriters I've ever known of and whom I hold in a pedestal above everyone else.
Now, that doesn't mean I will always be praising and applauding everything he does blindly. And I don't expect that from a fan forum either; on the contrary, I would find that very boring if there weren't some healthy and respectful discussion, so I celebrate that others gave other critical opinions. It had been a while since we had last discussed something about Jeff's music, and honestly I had been missing a bit of what this thread brought us.
Now, I'm OK with joking, with flamethrowers and all that, but if my opinions have really offended anyone, I would like my forummates to know that when I'm saying, for example, that performance-wise other people could play the songs better than Jeff Lynne I'm not making a personal attack on Jeff Lynne. They are honest opinions about something which I think is a reality these days, and I'm not making it out of hatred for Jeff Lynne, I hope everyone understands that and there's no need to explain this again in the future. Again, don't lose sight of the fact that I admire that guy as much as you do, and if it were for people like me ELO would be as popular as Queen or the Beatles are.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 28, 2019 21:08:40 GMT
Now there will be rumors of Jeff being drunk when he mess's up singing or playing. Ni0ce. There are enough videos on YouTube of Jeff being drunk that I don't think I added to the rumor mill. Heartbeat '86 and the walking interview in Switzerland come to mind. Most of us know Jeff isn't a "mediocre" guitar player. He doesn't rank among the greats, but he knows his instrument. The few people who claim he can't play are trying to come off as experts but only betray their own limitations.
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Post by BSJ on Mar 28, 2019 21:30:50 GMT
You're so upset about any criticism and rumors about Jeff, I question why you felt the need to bring up his being drunk on stage. You don't know if he was at the RRHOF. You're assuming. Many fans don't know of his drinking in the 70/80's, or have never known. Now they will question what state he is in when performing now.
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Post by jackpunch on Mar 28, 2019 22:02:15 GMT
Now there will be rumors of Jeff being drunk when he mess's up singing or playing. Ni0ce. There are enough videos on YouTube of Jeff being drunk that I don't think I added to the rumor mill. Heartbeat '86 and the walking interview in Switzerland come to mind. Most of us know Jeff isn't a "mediocre" guitar player. He doesn't rank among the greats, but he knows his instrument. The few people who claim he can't play are trying to come off as experts but only betray their own limitations. I'm not betraying my own limitations at all. I'm a very decent Tuba and Euphonium player, but I can turn my hand to piano, guitar, banjo, mandolin, double bass and I can't think of a single guitar part he's played that I'd struggle with. And I'm a very very ordinary guitarist. If you want to have a discussion about playing musical instruments and music theory I'm all ears. As I've said he's an incredible singer, songwriter, arranger, producer, but I'm sorry he's nowt flash as a musician.
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Post by unomusette on Mar 28, 2019 22:50:32 GMT
I'm sure I've read features where Jeff's guitar playing has been highly praised by fellow musicians, certainly by those in the Idle Race. Apparently he had a few tricks and techniques which amazed them and they felt he was much under-rated as a player. To be fair it was back in the sixties and seventies so whether he still has those skills may be up for debate.
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Post by elophile on Mar 28, 2019 23:17:08 GMT
I don't care how good Jeff is at playing the guitar.
Mr elophile is a musician and he says that Jeff is a solid guitar player but not an overly virtuosic or showy one. Jeff is much more than a guitar player - he's an artist, a creator of beauty! To be able to move your fingers fast and with precision and all the other skills that go into it is not the same thing as being able to create beautiful music. To me it's like comparing someone who can paint a realistic portrait or recreate the play of light across a three dimensional object vs. a visionary artist who uses their imagination to create something that doesn't exist in reality. Two different things - two different types of talent.
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TIME
Mar 29, 2019 0:05:33 GMT
Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 29, 2019 0:05:33 GMT
You're so upset about any criticism and rumors about Jeff, I question why you felt the need to bring up his being drunk on stage. You don't know if he was at the RRHOF. You're assuming. Many fans don't know of his drinking in the 70/80's, or have never known. Now they will question what state he is in when performing now. Wow. I had no idea anyone would think talking about Jeff's drinking is opening a can of worms. I saw the bottles of wine on his table at the RRHOF in the video and photographs. Jeff has been photographed with a glass of wine in his hand so many times there is no way to count. His friends have told tales of drinking bottles of red wine with him far into the night, as recently as 2014. Sorry if you didn't know about this aspect of Jeff's history and behavior, BSJ. I'm not going to justify "revealing" it further. It's well known; it's not a secret. Please be assured that damaging Jeff's reputation in any way is the last thing I have in my mind.
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TIME
Mar 29, 2019 0:13:29 GMT
Post by elophile on Mar 29, 2019 0:13:29 GMT
Jeff has been photographed with a glass of wine in his hand so many times there is no way to count. As have we all, my friend. AS HAVE WE ALL!!! Am i right? Whatever gets you through the night...
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Post by Helmut83 on Mar 29, 2019 0:46:16 GMT
Jeff is much more than a guitar player - he's an artist, a creator of beauty! To be able to move your fingers fast and with precision and all the other skills that go into it is not the same thing as being able to create beautiful music. To me it's like comparing someone who can paint a realistic portrait or recreate the play of light across a three dimensional object vs. a visionary artist who uses their imagination to create something that doesn't exist in reality. Two different things - two different types of talent. You have hit the nail right on the head here, my friend. Playing guitar is a one-dimensional, almost superficial art compared to the much more complex and deeper craft of creating music. That's why for me a songwriter will always be on a different level than a sheer instrument player. (However, when I said Jeff was there because he was the man who had written those songs, I got the sensation that not everyone agreed). Now, your past as a Drooler makes me wonder if when you are talking about Jeff being a "creator of beauty" you are referring to this or that song he wrote or simply to him smirking to the camera for a picture...
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Post by elophile on Mar 29, 2019 0:50:36 GMT
Jeff is much more than a guitar player - he's an artist, a creator of beauty! To be able to move your fingers fast and with precision and all the other skills that go into it is not the same thing as being able to create beautiful music. To me it's like comparing someone who can paint a realistic portrait or recreate the play of light across a three dimensional object vs. a visionary artist who uses their imagination to create something that doesn't exist in reality. Two different things - two different types of talent. You have hit the nail right on the head here, my friend. Playing guitar is a one-dimensional, almost superficial art compared to the much more complex and deeper craft of creating music. That's why for me a songwriter will always be on a different level than a sheer instrument player. (However, when I said Jeff was there because he was the man who had written those songs, I got the sensation that not everyone agreed). Now, your past as a Drooler makes me wonder if when you are talking about Jeff being a "creator of beauty" you are referring to this or that song he wrote or simply to him smirking to the camera for a picture... My PAST as a drooler? Sometimes I feel like I'm keeping the enterprise afloat on my own these days. To me a young Jeff is a thing of beauty but I WAS referring to his music.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 29, 2019 1:12:44 GMT
<snip> Most of us know Jeff isn't a "mediocre" guitar player. He doesn't rank among the greats, but he knows his instrument. The few people who claim he can't play are trying to come off as experts but only betray their own limitations. I'm not betraying my own limitations at all. I'm a very decent Tuba and Euphonium player, but I can turn my hand to piano, guitar, banjo, mandolin, double bass and I can't think of a single guitar part he's played that I'd struggle with. And I'm a very very ordinary guitarist. If you want to have a discussion about playing musical instruments and music theory I'm all ears. As I've said he's an incredible singer, songwriter, arranger, producer, but I'm sorry he's nowt flash as a musician. You haven't given any evidence of Jeff being a poor guitar player beyond your own opinion. You can't produce this isolated lead guitar track from ROB at the RRHOF. You haven't given any examples we can listen to where Jeff missed a note on the neck, or fouled a bend or a slide. You haven't offered any examples, recordings or performances. Saying you can play what he can play isn't proof of your contention. It's just more opinion. I'd like a recording of you playing the guitar lead for "Kuiama" please, with the violin effect. Don't know where you're going to get the amp Jeff used to accomplish that. If you can't do "Kuiama," then how about recording the lead guitar part to "Don't Let Go" from Armchair Theatre. Lots of bending strings, doubled strings, Bigby effects, maybe a Leslie. I'm not sure if he used a Tele or his Goldtop for that one. I'm sure you can figure it out. Good luck. You know what your opinion is worth without some pretty hard evidence to back it up.
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Post by elophile on Mar 29, 2019 1:20:36 GMT
I'm not betraying my own limitations at all. I'm a very decent Tuba and Euphonium player, but I can turn my hand to piano, guitar, banjo, mandolin, double bass and I can't think of a single guitar part he's played that I'd struggle with. And I'm a very very ordinary guitarist. If you want to have a discussion about playing musical instruments and music theory I'm all ears. As I've said he's an incredible singer, songwriter, arranger, producer, but I'm sorry he's nowt flash as a musician. You haven't given any evidence of Jeff being a poor guitar player beyond your own opinion. You can't produce this isolated lead guitar track from ROB at the RRHOF. You haven't given any examples we can listen to where Jeff missed a note on the neck, or fouled a bend or a slide. You haven't offered any examples, recordings or performances. Saying you can play what he can play isn't proof of your contention. It's just more opinion. I'd like a recording of you playing the guitar lead for "Kuiama" please, with the violin effect. Don't know where you're going to get the amp Jeff used to accomplish that. If you can't do "Kuiama," then how about recording the lead guitar part to "Don't Let Go" from Armchair Theatre. Lots of bending strings, doubled strings, Bigby effects, maybe a Leslie. I'm not sure if he used a Tele or his Goldtop for that one. I'm sure you can figure it out. Good luck. You know what your opinion is worth without some pretty hard evidence to back it up. I think I found the clip jackpunch was referring to:
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TIME
Mar 29, 2019 1:22:55 GMT
Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 29, 2019 1:22:55 GMT
That isn't Jeff.
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