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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 8, 2014 15:59:40 GMT
And what would be sugar in music form according to your taste, my most esteemed gentleman?
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 8, 2014 16:01:41 GMT
To each, their own. Besides, "Need Her Love" "Midnight Blue" and "Wishing" are just plain saccharine in music form. Yes, to each their own. It's still difficult to reconcile your opinions of those tracks with things like your avatar and "The Appreciation Thread" in one's own twisted mind, though.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 8, 2014 16:05:27 GMT
This is the second consecutive time (in this thread) that we've responded to the same quote at the same time, Helmut. 'Similar brain chemistry, similar mystical soul activity or just coincidence?
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Post by PowWow on Nov 8, 2014 16:10:51 GMT
And what would be sugar in music form according to your taste, my most esteemed gentleman? Music that tries way too hard to be sincere and doesn't go anywhere
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 8, 2014 16:11:02 GMT
This is the second consecutive time (in this thread) that we've responded to the same quote at the same time, Helmut. 'Similar brain chemistry, similar mystical soul activity or just coincidence? A conjunction of the three, no doubt. You know, yesterday I was about to go to the appreciation thread and scream "I love you, Johnny!!!!", but it seems on that occasion we were a bit out of phase and had some seconds of lag. Left me wondering though...
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 8, 2014 16:36:08 GMT
This is the second consecutive time (in this thread) that we've responded to the same quote at the same time, Helmut. 'Similar brain chemistry, similar mystical soul activity or just coincidence? A conjunction of the three, no doubt. You know, yesterday I was about to go to the appreciation thread and scream "I love you, Johnny!!!!", but it seems on that occasion we were a bit out of phase and had some seconds of lag. Left me wondering though... Ha! There's simply no doubt that you're the older, wiser and saner person, and no need to remind anyone of that fact.
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 8, 2014 16:57:22 GMT
Ha! There's simply no doubt that you're the older, wiser and saner person, and no need to remind anyone of that fact. While saying I'm (slightly) saner than you might be true, it's like saying a seal elephant is slimmer than a walrus. Two basket cases anyway...
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 8, 2014 23:31:52 GMT
Personally, the introduction of 'formula rockers' as album closers in the 80s was a very unwelcome development. The fact that two of them became big hits did much to reinforce the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge, IMO. Having said that, I wouldn't relegate Hold On Tight to a B-side, but I certainly would Rock 'n' Roll Is King. As for Send It... well, a B-side might be too good for it I don't get why "Hold on tight" and RRIK always receive so much hate on this forum. It's almost as if a cliche had been installed that if you like those songs you are a pumped-up simpleton and not a black palate of music. I like very much both of them (not so much "Send it"). But personal tastes aside, what did you mean when you said " the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge". How is writing a song like any of those two "losing it's creative edge"? In any case, it would be a change of style from what they had been doing before "Time", I could agree about that, but losing it's creative edge, as if they had ran out of ideas and threw on the album the most basic thing they could have imagined? Yeah, they may be 3-chords based, but the melody is very strong and particular in both cases and that's something you don't achieve if you aren't creative. Do you know how many artists must have wished they had written a song like "Hold on Tight"? Also, how is having big hits a sign of losing your creative edge? As I see it, liking them or disliking them is a matter of personal opinion, but you sure need to be creative to write songs like those.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 9, 2014 0:52:04 GMT
I'd have to agree with Helmut. "Don't Bring Me Down", "Hold on Tight" and "Rock 'n' Roll Is King" were all great album closers to these ears and always have been.
"Destination Unknown" would have been more fitting than "Send It", though.
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Post by Southernman on Nov 9, 2014 14:27:33 GMT
Personally, the introduction of 'formula rockers' as album closers in the 80s was a very unwelcome development. The fact that two of them became big hits did much to reinforce the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge, IMO. Having said that, I wouldn't relegate Hold On Tight to a B-side, but I certainly would Rock 'n' Roll Is King. As for Send It... well, a B-side might be too good for it I don't get why "Hold on tight" and RRIK always receive so much hate on this forum. It's almost as if a cliche had been installed that if you like those songs you are a pumped-up simpleton and not a black palate of music. I like very much both of them (not so much "Send it"). But personal tastes aside, what did you mean when you said " the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge". How is writing a song like any of those two "losing it's creative edge"? In any case, it would be a change of style from what they had been doing before "Time", I could agree about that, but losing it's creative edge, as if they had ran out of ideas and threw on the album the most basic thing they could have imagined? Yeah, they may be 3-chords based, but the melody is very strong and particular in both cases and that's something you don't achieve if you aren't creative. Do you know how many artists must have wished they had written a song like "Hold on Tight"? Also, how is having big hits a sign of losing your creative edge? As I see it, liking them or disliking them is a matter of personal opinion, but you sure need to be creative to write songs like those. Well, I don’t think this thread was ever intended to reach a consensus (although I note no-one has leapt to the defence of Another Heart Breaks yet.. ), which probably means that every track that gets cast into the B-side bin is likely to be the much-loved treasure of someone else. As I’ve only just joined the forum, I have no idea what hatred or insults you might be referring to. I don’t think you were inferring that my views should be put alongside those that you describe, but (just in case) I’d be grateful if you didn’t. On the creativity issue, you entirely missed my point. Whether those songs were written to a formula or not, I did not say they were not creative – I expect Jeff slaved as much time and attention on them as anything else he’s done. However, if (like me) you were around at the time, you’ll know that ELO were wrongly portrayed in the media and elsewhere as producing increasingly irrelevant lightweight pop. What they were actually doing on their albums was far removed from this, and Jeff was constantly seeking to push ELO’s sound into new territories. My point was that, particularly as the lead singles for much-anticipated new albums, HOT and RNRIK gave lazy reviewers the chance to perpetuate the myth that ELO were simply turning out catchy pop/rock pastiches.
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Post by Southernman on Nov 9, 2014 14:27:53 GMT
Personally, the introduction of 'formula rockers' as album closers in the 80s was a very unwelcome development. The fact that two of them became big hits did much to reinforce the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge, IMO. Having said that, I wouldn't relegate Hold On Tight to a B-side, but I certainly would Rock 'n' Roll Is King. As for Send It... well, a B-side might be too good for it I don't get why "Hold on tight" and RRIK always receive so much hate on this forum. It's almost as if a cliche had been installed that if you like those songs you are a pumped-up simpleton and not a black palate of music. I like very much both of them (not so much "Send it"). But personal tastes aside, what did you mean when you said " the impression that ELO had lost its creative edge". How is writing a song like any of those two "losing it's creative edge"? In any case, it would be a change of style from what they had been doing before "Time", I could agree about that, but losing it's creative edge, as if they had ran out of ideas and threw on the album the most basic thing they could have imagined? Yeah, they may be 3-chords based, but the melody is very strong and particular in both cases and that's something you don't achieve if you aren't creative. Do you know how many artists must have wished they had written a song like "Hold on Tight"? Also, how is having big hits a sign of losing your creative edge? As I see it, liking them or disliking them is a matter of personal opinion, but you sure need to be creative to write songs like those.
Well, I don’t think this thread was ever intended to reach a consensus (although I note no-one has leapt to the defence of Another Heart Breaks yet.. ), which probably means that every track that gets cast into the B-side bin is likely to be the much-loved treasure of someone else.
As I’ve only just joined the forum, I have no idea what hatred or insults you might be referring to. I don’t think you were inferring that my views should be put alongside those that you describe, but (just in case) I’d be grateful if you didn’t. On the creativity issue, you entirely missed my point. Whether those songs were written to a formula or not, I did not say they were not creative – I expect Jeff slaved as much time and attention on them as anything else he’s done. However, if (like me) you were around at the time, you’ll know that ELO were wrongly portrayed in the media and elsewhere as producing increasingly irrelevant lightweight pop. What they were actually doing on their albums was far removed from this, and Jeff was constantly seeking to push ELO’s sound into new territories. My point was that, particularly as the lead singles for much-anticipated new albums, HOT and RNRIK gave lazy reviewers the chance to perpetuate the myth that ELO were simply turning out catchy pop/rock pastiches.
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Post by PowWow on Nov 9, 2014 14:35:26 GMT
Hey guys, Why don't we talk about defending Another Fart Breaks instead? surely that song has potential to someone else!
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 9, 2014 15:42:48 GMT
Hey guys, Why don't we talk about defending Another Fart Breaks instead? surely that song has potential to someone else! I won't do that, but will defend "Another Heart Breaks". While it's true that "When Time Stood Still" is the superior song, the former was definitely good enough to be on Time, IMO. I'll go as far as being a heretic (again) and say that "21st Century Man" should have been a b-side. You've complained of sugary sounding tracks before; very few sound as saccharine as that one.
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 9, 2014 17:38:29 GMT
Southernman, your point makes much more sense now, but it was impossible to get it by the comment you made in first hand and without the further explanations you gave afterwards. Yes, those songs weren't fully representative of the rest of the work Jeff was doing at those times. I don't know on this forum because it is quite new, but on the old one HOT and RRIK always received a despisive treatment from most of the users, as giving for granted that they were cheap musical garbage.
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 9, 2014 17:52:21 GMT
What you say reminds me a bit of the Beatles' case . 95% of the people give opinions about the Beatles' and, wether they like them or not, they are always judging them over their most simple songs, most of them from the first era ("She loves you", "Love me do", "I wanna hold your hand", "A hard day's night", etc...).
Big injustice. Wether you like them or not -I like many of those-, they are only representative of a small portion of the Beatles' work. Very few people judge the Beatles over songs like "You never give me your money", "Happiness is a warm gun" or "I've got a feeling" simply because they don't know them, so they are totally ignoring what is being talked about when someone who knows those songs says the Beatles were geniuses.
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