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Post by 88keys on Sept 27, 2014 19:56:41 GMT
For one, I'm not a guy. I'm female. Secondly, I already told you that I'm an atheist, and a former Catholic. And one of the many reasons I'm an atheist and former Catholic is because a Catholic priest repeatedly raped my cousin when he was 13. How do you feel about your church hierarchy turning a blind eye to such things? Sorry mods, I had to go there. Very sorry to hear that 88keys, and I won't call you a guy anymore. They turned a blind eye to your cousin getting raped? Jim Yes, basically the priest got away with a minor slap on the wrist by the parish, because there was "no solid proof". It seems to be an epidemic within the Catholic church, in case you haven't noticed.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Sept 27, 2014 20:03:43 GMT
I wonder what Chippa and 88keys are hiding from? Two very nice guys, why would they want to go hiding from these bigger questions? I wonder what they would answer, if they weren't afraid to be honest in this discussion? I can't speak for either, but do you really think they are hiding? Not everyone has the time or interest in engaging in conversations over the internet like we have.
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Post by Chippa on Sept 27, 2014 20:04:39 GMT
I wonder what Chippa and 88keys are hiding from? Hiding from? Nice assumption there, Jim. I just don't think this is the place to discuss religion and politics. There are thousand of other outlets on the internet for such discussion, so it baffles me as to why you'd want to bring it here? We had it on ELO Forever, at first, but it got really ugly so we ended up banning any type of talk of that nature, and things calmed down. Now, back to the mayo talk......
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 27, 2014 20:11:23 GMT
Did you know mayonnaise first came from Mahon on the Spanish island of Menorca. That's todays fascinating fact
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Post by jrmugz on Sept 27, 2014 21:31:09 GMT
Very sorry to hear that 88keys, and I won't call you a guy anymore. They turned a blind eye to your cousin getting raped? Jim Yes, basically the priest got away with a minor slap on the wrist by the parish, because there was "no solid proof". It seems to be an epidemic within the Catholic church, in case you haven't noticed. I am so sorry to hear that, I hope somehow your cousin is getting the help they need for all the trauma, and I can see where it would put a lot of people off for sure. Statistaically, it's not an epidemic with The Catholic Church anymore than in society in general. One mistake they made in response to some of the cases reported from the seventies and eighties was thinking the priests could be rehabilitated like an alcoholic, so they would shuffle them to other parishes, etc. But obviously there was a lot of folly to that, and it was naive for its good intentions, so that's why there's been more of zero-tolerance now, that there should have been all along. I certainly realize that's not much consolation to your cousin at this point, so sorry again to hear about that and will keep them in my prayers. A female cousin I take it, since you said raped rather than molested? Sorry to ask, and feel free to not respond, just curious, since I will be offering prayers for their healing. Jim
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Post by jrmugz on Sept 27, 2014 21:36:01 GMT
I wonder what Chippa and 88keys are hiding from? Two very nice guys, why would they want to go hiding from these bigger questions? I wonder what they would answer, if they weren't afraid to be honest in this discussion? I can't speak for either, but do you really think they are hiding? Not everyone has the time or interest in engaging in conversations over the internet like we have. Well, its like this Rob. I'm not particularly interested in say, topics about musical gear, mainly because I can't afford any, etc. But because of that, I'm not going to make myself a sideline heckler to a thread about musical gear, let alone inside of the thread itself. So there's something deeper going on, something is being threatened, I think they feel. I'm trying to think, now what is it, that would motive me to belittle and heckle during a thread, instead of just stay away from it, if it wasn't my cup of tea? You see what I mean? Jim
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Post by jrmugz on Sept 27, 2014 21:44:24 GMT
I wonder what Chippa and 88keys are hiding from? Hiding from? Nice assumption there, Jim. I just don't think this is the place to discuss religion and politics. There are thousand of other outlets on the internet for such discussion, so it baffles me as to why you'd want to bring it here? We had it on ELO Forever, at first, but it got really ugly so we ended up banning any type of talk of that nature, and things calmed down. Now, back to the mayo talk...... Hi Chippa, I gotta be honest that to me, it doesn't make a lot of sense that its not a place for religion and politics. Jeff's songs have lyrics to them. Lyrics express deep thoughts. Deep thoughts express who we are. They point to what is important in life and what life is all about. Why would we not want to bring it here? Why is it a lesser subject than sports or music gear or any "other discussion" some ELO fans might want to do? I DO agree that bickering, etc. is not good, however if it's as it should be, honest, open, discussion, where we all want to get to the truth, and we don't feel unnecessarily threatened, then it should be fine. That's why I wish you'd start thinking out loud with us and join the discussion, and resist the temptation to be a sideline heckler, so to speak. For my part, I haven't witnessed much hostility in this thread, and for any concerns, at least its confined to just one thread, not even a whole section. Jim
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Post by 88keys on Sept 27, 2014 22:32:30 GMT
Yes, basically the priest got away with a minor slap on the wrist by the parish, because there was "no solid proof". It seems to be an epidemic within the Catholic church, in case you haven't noticed. A female cousin I take it, since you said raped rather than molested? Sorry to ask, and feel free to not respond, just curious, since I will be offering prayers for their healing. Jim No, he's a male. The priest anally raped him, and told him the whole time that "God wanted them together". It happened ten years ago, and my cousin is doing well. Had it been me, I would have shot the fucker in the head.
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Post by Chippa on Sept 27, 2014 22:47:30 GMT
Here's an idea : since we all love our polls (or Poles, depending on where you're from), let's make one and ask if people want religious and political talk banned from the forum. No discussion would really be needed ; yes or no vote, majority rules. Fair?
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Post by Rob 2095 on Sept 27, 2014 23:26:09 GMT
Here's an idea : since we all love our polls (or Poles, depending on where you're from), let's make one and ask if people want religious and political talk banned from the forum. No discussion would really be needed ; yes or no vote, majority rules. Fair? That seems a little premature, IMO. 'Just as Jim pointed out: even though the tempers of some may have already flared at various points, there hasn't appeared to have been any outward hostility displayed in the thread, and no one has been personally attacked. It's sort of ironic that you should suggest this since you have contributed several humorous posts, regardless of whether they were meant to diffuse situations from developing or not. I guess the decision is up to Horace or Queen, who haven't protested the course of the thread so far.
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Post by elophile on Sept 27, 2014 23:49:19 GMT
Here's an idea : since we all love our polls (or Poles, depending on where you're from), let's make one and ask if people want religious and political talk banned from the forum. No discussion would really be needed ; yes or no vote, majority rules. Fair? I've been reluctant to comment in this thread at all but I think a poll is a great idea - ask the forum members what they prefer. Simple, democratic. I love the forum and all my fellow ELO virtual friends but Honestly, this thread turns me off BIG TIME and if I were not already a member and stumbled across the forum as it looks today with this thread dominating the recent posts I probably wouldn't join.
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Post by Helmut83 on Sept 28, 2014 0:46:36 GMT
Here's an idea : since we all love our polls (or Poles, depending on where you're from), let's make one and ask if people want religious and political talk banned from the forum. No discussion would really be needed ; yes or no vote, majority rules. Fair? That seems a little premature, IMO. 'Just as Jim pointed out: even though the tempers of some may have already flared at various points, there hasn't appeared to have been any outward hostility displayed in the thread, and no one has been personally attacked. It's sort of ironic that you should suggest this since you have contributed several humorous posts, regardless of whether they were meant to diffuse situations from developing or not. I guess the decision is up to Horace or Queen, who haven't protested the course of the thread so far. I agree with Rob on this one. Like I said on a previous conversation, I've been each time more inclined to see democracy as the tyranny of the majorities. It his case, why would majorities that don't want to speak about politics (yeah, guys, the ones who proposed that votation know it is going to win, otherwise you wouldn't have proposed it) would force minorities who want to do it? If you don't like it, you always have the possibility of keeping yourself away from this segment of the forum, but why forcing others? Aren't some segments of the forum (like the CD of the week) running with most people not participating in them? Why not do the same about this segment? On the other hand, I've been discussing politics and religion issues since I've joined the forum and I can't remember having been involved in even one fight with anyone related to those topics. I'm not a fan of discussing those issues for the sheer sake of discussing them -as you see, I haven't made posts here recently-, but if talking about ELO or any other matter something related to politics or religion arises, I wouldn't want to have them as taboo subjects.
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Post by Chippa on Sept 28, 2014 1:27:56 GMT
Hey, whatever happens happens. If the religious and political discussion stays, I guarantee it will bring this board down, as it nearly did the ELO Forever Forum. Trust me on this.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Sept 28, 2014 1:30:43 GMT
I've been reluctant to comment in this thread at all but I think a poll is a great idea - ask the forum members what they prefer. Simple, democratic. I love the forum and all my fellow ELO virtual friends but Honestly, this thread turns me off BIG TIME and if I were not already a member and stumbled across the forum as it looks today with this thread dominating the recent posts I probably wouldn't join. 'Sorry to hear that. To put things in perspective: there are large numbers of non religious and non political internet message boards (including music focused ones) that sometimes feature sections for religion and often do for politics... this isn't even a section in and of itself. If Horace and Queen think that it has to potential to turn a lot of onlookers off, then what's the need for a poll?
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Post by Rob 2095 on Sept 28, 2014 1:40:35 GMT
Hey, whatever happens happens. If the religious and political discussion stays, I guarantee it will bring this board down, as it nearly did the ELO Forever Forum. Trust me on this. This is difficult to argue with because you're a long time moderator and I either can't remember or never really knew what happened in that case. It just seems like a shame to keep topics such as these off limits.
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