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Post by lawrev on Jan 26, 2023 20:11:28 GMT
I recently purchased the Japanese cd release of Secret Messages from several years ago. The release that is essentially everything from the original 2 LP vetoed release, minus Beatles Forever. While I will never consider Secret Messages complete as long as BF is missing from the album, I will say that this *nearly complete* version of SM is an improvement from the original release. The song tracking is better, and the Japan cd has the extras (lyrics, information, etc.) that were missing from the recent LP release. And I get the Japanese language translation that I can't read anyway.
So, worth the purchase. But Jeff - 2/4 Beatles are no longer with us, and I'm sure that Paul and Ringo don't really care at 80 years of age. Fawn. Release BF.
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Post by Southernman on Jan 26, 2023 22:40:54 GMT
I prefer the Blu-spec CD over the reissue LP - sonically it's a slight improvement to my ears, but more than that, it presents the material much better in my view.
I think splitting the songs over four sides highlights the album's weaknesses: first the chop and change of styles becomes more incoherent. But more than that - and some might disagree - I think both the single and double album formats contain the weakest set of songs in Jeff's career. To sustain interest in a double LP you need a lot more compelling material than this.
Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff's ambition on Secret Messages, it's just a shame the songs don't live up to it. Absolutely the right management decision to cut it to one LP in my opinion, but the exclusion of Hello My Old Friend was a massive blunder.
And I'm afraid the inclusion of Beatles Forever would only have made matters worse, both then and now. Let it R.I.P. in my view!
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Post by lawrev on Jan 27, 2023 0:44:27 GMT
I do agree that the Blu-spec CD is a much needed improvement over the early 2000s reissue. I need to put this in my car stereo as the latter is much better than what I have at home presently.
On the instrument side of the equation, I still think that electronic drums lack the oomph that a traditional kit has. And as Bev has said over the years, by this time he was basically a time keeper rather than being allow to unleash his potential.
And we all know that this album was started with great hope (the flying visit during the Time Tour) but the period of 1982-83 turned out to be a time of significant change in the band. That is probably reflected in this full 2 cd/lp release. But definitely, Hello My Old Friend should have been on the original release.
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Post by ShardEnder on Jan 27, 2023 2:12:29 GMT
The more I think about it, CBS and Jeff had something of a dilemma when it came to Hello My Old Friend...
As a track on a double album, it could either make for an incredible deep cut (as on the 3-4-83 reference tape) or a fantastic closer (as it became with the final 3-11-83 tracklist), but on a single album? Every running order variation I've seen going back to the first made in early December '82 has that first side unchanged, so my guess is that because any revisions were made by editing stereo tapes, they couldn't go back and separate off the opening four songs, which exist as a pair of intricately joined pairs. The easiest to split up would have been the second, but even then, what to do with Bluebird then having to be faded early to remove that segue into Take Me On And On?
For better or worse, the first side was locked in, and that leaves even less room for HMOF. Four Little Diamonds and Stranger were singled out to serve as standalone samplers for the album, so those would need to stay, and then there's Rock 'N' Roll Is King, which appears to have been Jeff's preferred closing track on every version of the album except the 3-11-83 assembly. Even then, he never properly mixed the outro to seamlessly blend into the "welcome to the show" tag. As much as it pains me to admit this, HMOF was never going to resurface as a single B-side, and there's likely a good reason we've never heard the edit of it that reportedly drops the intro, breakdown section and some of the ending, reducing it down to approximately 4:30.
There was only ever one place this could go, and for that we needed a complete restoration of the 2LP set as originally intended. I only wish they'd put in more effort than just trimming out the ten seconds or so of leader tape between the fade ending and the tag that can be found on the second 3-11-83 acetate, but there's always the hope for a future revision. Something for the upcoming 40th anniversary might be too soon, but I also fear the 2018 reissue was the final say on this album in an official capacity.
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Post by lawrev on Jan 27, 2023 13:57:02 GMT
And it appears the dilemma CBS and Jeff had stretched to the business relationship? I know that in the 70s Jeff had a close relationship with Don Arden, and we know that deteriorated in the early 80s. It is noticeable that in Don Arden's book, when it comes to ELO he spends most of the time talking about the band up through 1979 but there is very little said during the 80s except when you get around to 1986 when Arden said Jeff was winding the band down. Craig Fruin became Jeff's agent, but evidently he could not convince CBS to release a double album either.
There probably is much more information about the 1982-83 time period but nobody is talking. Maybe they all signed 100 year NDAs.
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Post by pelo on Jan 27, 2023 15:46:52 GMT
I prefer the Blu-spec CD over the reissue LP - sonically it's a slight improvement to my ears, but more than that, it presents the material much better in my view. I think splitting the songs over four sides highlights the album's weaknesses: first the chop and change of styles becomes more incoherent. But more than that - and some might disagree - I think both the single and double album formats contain the weakest set of songs in Jeff's career. To sustain interest in a double LP you need a lot more compelling material than this. Don't get me wrong, I love Jeff's ambition on Secret Messages, it's just a shame the songs don't live up to it. Absolutely the right management decision to cut it to one LP in my opinion, but the exclusion of Hello My Old Friend was a massive blunder. And I'm afraid the inclusion of Beatles Forever would only have made matters worse, both then and now. Let it R.I.P. in my view! I totally disagree. First of all, IMHO, the double album is much more coherent than the single album. Added to this, the concept of the secret messages comes across better. Secondly, it always amazes me that many fans don't recognise the quality of the songwriting. The title track is an absolute stroke of genius, as are Loser Gone Wild, Take Me On And On (listen to this song guys, it's criminally underrated!) and many, many others. Finally, I do think that Beatles Forever is a good track, although it's not a problem for me if Jeff prefers not to include it. When Roy Wood released "Main Street" in 2000, no one was upset that he dropped a song that was originally intended. And how many versions are there of Tandy Morgan's awesome concept album "Earthrise"?
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Post by Southernman on Jan 27, 2023 17:43:09 GMT
Well Jeff's songwriting has always has attracted some pretty broad opinions!
I spent some time listening to the Blu-spec today and found after almost 40 years my views on the project haven't changed too much.
Playing a game of fantasy sequencing, the LP I would have liked a whole lot better is this:
Side One 1 "Secret Messages" 04:43 2 "Loser Gone Wild" 05:27 3 "Bluebird" 04:13 4 "Take Me On and On" 04:59 Total length: 19:22
Side Two 1 "Four Little Diamonds" 04:05 2 "Stranger" 04:27 3 "Danger Ahead" 03:52 4 "Letter from Spain" 02:51 5 "Hello My Old Friend" 08:30 Total length: 23:45
...and if you put a gun to my head and made me include the lead single, I'd do this:
Side One 1 "Secret Messages" 04:43 2 "Loser Gone Wild" 05:27 3 "Bluebird" 04:13 4 "Take Me On and On" 04:59 5 "Stranger" 04:27 Total length: 23:48
Side Two 1 "Four Little Diamonds" 04:05 2 "Danger Ahead" 03:52 3 "Letter from Spain" 02:51 4 "Rock 'n' Roll Is King" 03:49 5 "Hello My Old Friend" 08:30 Total length: 23:07
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Post by lawrev on Jan 27, 2023 19:59:06 GMT
Well Jeff's songwriting has always has attracted some pretty broad opinions! I spent some time listening to the Blu-spec today and found after almost 40 years my views on the project haven't changed too much. Playing a game of fantasy sequencing, the LP I would have liked a whole lot better is this: Side One 1 "Secret Messages" 04:43 2 "Loser Gone Wild" 05:27 3 "Bluebird" 04:13 4 "Take Me On and On" 04:59 Total length: 19:22 Side Two 1 "Four Little Diamonds" 04:05 2 "Stranger" 04:27 3 "Danger Ahead" 03:52 4 "Letter from Spain" 02:51 5 "Hello My Old Friend" 08:30 Total length: 23:45 ...and if you put a gun to my head and made me include the lead single, I'd do this: Side One 1 "Secret Messages" 04:43 2 "Loser Gone Wild" 05:27 3 "Bluebird" 04:13 4 "Take Me On and On" 04:59 5 "Stranger" 04:27 Total length: 23:48 Side Two 1 "Four Little Diamonds" 04:05 2 "Danger Ahead" 03:52 3 "Letter from Spain" 02:51 4 "Rock 'n' Roll Is King" 03:49 5 "Hello My Old Friend" 08:30 Total length: 23:07 Your fantasy sequencing is rather intriguing - I like it. And if we were to include the lead off single, I'd rather want to hear Motor Factory first (but I know that is another fantasy). And yes, I'd want Beatles Forever included.
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Post by moon on Feb 10, 2023 16:04:57 GMT
Hi! For me, the best version of Secret Messages is the released in 2001. It has the ideal setlist, as Time After Time is included between the rest of the original songs. Endless Lies and After All are good inclusions too, so I think there's no reason to include anything else. In fact, Buildings Have Eyes, Mandalay and Hello My Old Friend should be the original "bonus tracks", not the last three songs of the 2001 release... Oh, about Beatles Forever, I have a theory. Jeff will release it as a new version, so we will lose the original magic, except for the demo versions on YT. So we are going to hear a new sound, with that boring drums on it, but released as a new one!
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Post by mrradio on Mar 7, 2023 12:45:11 GMT
This is how I like to play my Secret Messages reimagined album...
I've never been into Loser Gone Wild with its noodling jazz blues and Take Me On And On I'd prefer as a B side
Side 1 1. Secret Messages 2. Stranger 3. Bluebird 4. Buildings Have Eyes 5. Rock N Roll Is King
Side 2
1. Four Little Diamonds 2. Letter From Spain 3. Danger Ahead 4. Time After Time 5. Hello My Old Friend
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