|
Post by dillwyn on May 19, 2021 9:53:18 GMT
oh it goes on all the time ..
JL is picking up 20% for sam smith's stay with me.
I'm sure I've read Mr Weller paid JL something for changing man. JL paid Marvin Gaye for showdown and he gave a percentage of every little thing to going to the writers of going to a go go writers didn't he?
in a 50 year, 100+ song career it is going to happen.
Musical Arrangements (like day in a life) come and go, he isn't replicating the melody IMHO , if it helps : COPYRIGHT WORKS IN A SONG. A song is the combination of melody and words.
|
|
|
Post by lasttrain929 on May 19, 2021 11:43:17 GMT
The Time album for me is a genius album with Jeff using so many clever little tricks throughout the album that were way above my head in 1981. From the forward running water at the start to the backward running water at the end. The french lines by Ghislaine in HOT fitted in so well to the song, there is just too many to mention. In the epilogue I can hear Jeff saying a few softly spoken lines that I just can’t make out. I have spotted so many tricks throughout the album. Can’t wait for the 40th double album to see how it all fits together. Come on Jeff put us out of our misery announce the release..... please
|
|
|
Post by pelo on May 19, 2021 16:05:14 GMT
oh it goes on all the time .. JL is picking up 20% for sam smith's stay with me. I'm sure I've read Mr Weller paid JL something for changing man. JL paid Marvin Gaye for showdown and he gave a percentage of every little thing to going to the writers of going to a go go writers didn't he? in a 50 year, 100+ song career it is going to happen. Musical Arrangements (like day in a life) come and go, he isn't replicating the melody IMHO , if it helps : COPYRIGHT WORKS IN A SONG. A song is the combination of melody and words. Although it's a thin line, there is a difference between ripping off and inspiration. Like most other pop/rock composers (including the Beatles!) Jeff Lynne heavily draws from other artists and styles. I think it's a conscious approach, something he actually learned from the Beatles. However, he only "nicks little bits" and combines them in a totally different way, so that the final result is definitely a new creation. When I listen to Grapevine and Showdown, it's easy to spot the elements which Jeff borrowed, but still, what I hear are two completely different songs. I wouldn't even say that Mr Blue Sky has a Beatles feel to it, since there are so many different influences in the mix, for example Swingle Sisters or Sparky's Magic Piano. Although The Way Life's Meant To Be uses the same Beatlish rhythm as Mr Blue Sky it's yet again a completely different approach.
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on May 19, 2021 19:47:13 GMT
Which songs written by the Beatles heavily draw from other artists? Just curious.
|
|
|
Post by fernandoamado on May 19, 2021 20:56:11 GMT
Which songs written by the Beatles heavily draw from other artists? Just curious. I can think of a couple examples. Back in the USSR heavily draws from the Beach Boys. I'm a Loser, In My Life and You've Got to Hide Your Love Away are very "Bobdylanesque" , though I wouldn't say "heavily" inspired. Lady Madonna was written with a Fats Domino style to it: "'Lady Madonna' was me sitting down at the piano trying to write a bluesy boogie-woogie thing ... It reminded me of Fats Domino for some reason, so I started singing a Fats Domino impression. It took my other voice to a very odd place." Domino's 1956 hit "Blue Monday" conveys the plight of a working man through each day of the week, while "Lady Madonna" does the same from a female perspective. BTW Hi! Haven't been very active, have I?
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on May 19, 2021 21:11:58 GMT
Which songs written by the Beatles heavily draw from other artists? Just curious. I can think of a couple examples. Back in the USSR heavily draws from the Beach Boys. I'm a Loser, In My Life and You've Got to Hide Your Love Away are very "Bobdylanesque" , though I wouldn't say "heavily" inspired. Lady Madonna was written with a Fats Domino style to it: "'Lady Madonna' was me sitting down at the piano trying to write a bluesy boogie-woogie thing ... It reminded me of Fats Domino for some reason, so I started singing a Fats Domino impression. It took my other voice to a very odd place." Domino's 1956 hit "Blue Monday" conveys the plight of a working man through each day of the week, while "Lady Madonna" does the same from a female perspective. BTW Hi! Haven't been very active, have I? Hi and welcome back, mi amigo del subdesarrollo! Pelo said the Beatles drew heavily from other songs, could you please name which songs by the Beatles draw heavily from which songs by those artists you mentioned? Being similar in style in no way means borrowing; for that to happen, considerable parts of the melodies have to be similar.
|
|
|
Post by StrangeMagic on May 20, 2021 3:55:18 GMT
I can think of a couple examples. Back in the USSR heavily draws from the Beach Boys. I'm a Loser, In My Life and You've Got to Hide Your Love Away are very "Bobdylanesque" , though I wouldn't say "heavily" inspired. Lady Madonna was written with a Fats Domino style to it: "'Lady Madonna' was me sitting down at the piano trying to write a bluesy boogie-woogie thing ... It reminded me of Fats Domino for some reason, so I started singing a Fats Domino impression. It took my other voice to a very odd place." Domino's 1956 hit "Blue Monday" conveys the plight of a working man through each day of the week, while "Lady Madonna" does the same from a female perspective. BTW Hi! Haven't been very active, have I? Hi and welcome back, mi amigo del subdesarrollo! Pelo said the Beatles drew heavily from other songs, could you please name which songs by the Beatles draw heavily from which songs by those artists you mentioned? Being similar in style in no way means borrowing; for that to happen, considerable parts of the melodies have to be similar. One prominent example is "Norwegian Wood" borrowing melodic elements from "Fourth Time Around."
"Old Brown Shoe" uses the same chugging rhythm as "Highway 61 Revisited."
Fernando mentioned "Back in the U.S.S.R." riffing on the Beach Boys. It also uses elements from Chuck Berry. The specific songs are "California Girls" (melody, lyrics, harmony, and backing vocals) and Chuck Berry's "Back in the U.S.A." (guitar riffs, song title, idea of returning home)
These are all deliberate parodies, or homages, not plagiarism, and each Beatles song has more than sufficient original elements to be considered original work. The borrowed elements are certainly as obvious, if not more so, than Jeff's habit of borrowing portions of music from songs he loves.
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on May 20, 2021 4:24:38 GMT
One prominent example is "Norwegian Wood" borrowing melodic elements from "Fourth Time Around." It's the other way around, "4th time around" was written after "Norwegian Wood" had come out and it's considered a bit of a satire that Bob Dylan made of John Lennon's song. "Old Brown Shoe" uses the same chugging rhythm as "Highway 61 Revisited." Using the same rhtythm means nothing in terms of borrowing/copying; there are whole genres (punk rock for example) that use pretty much the same rhythmic pattern for all of their songs. Fernando mentioned "Back in the U.S.S.R." riffing on the Beach Boys. It also uses elements from Chuck Berry. The specific songs are "California Girls" (melody, lyrics, harmony, and backing vocals) and Chuck Berry's "Back in the U.S.A." (guitar riffs, song title, idea of returning home) Elements... not enough for me. "The Ukraine girls rea-" has similar notes to "I wish that all could" and that's as much similarity in the melody as I can find. Alright, it's a similarity, but ephemeral, just 3 or 4 notes. The rest is similarities in style, but style is not borrowing. Every 4/4 classic rock n' roll could sound to Chuck Berry and every surf rock song with a lot of vocal harmonies could sound to the Beach Boys. Influences, but influences is not borrowing as long as the melody is different. I still don't have a song where I can confidently say "the Beatles borrowed this from someone else". Not saying there isn't, only that no fully convincing example has been given yet in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by StrangeMagic on May 20, 2021 5:32:01 GMT
One prominent example is "Norwegian Wood" borrowing melodic elements from "Fourth Time Around." It's the other way around, "4th time around" was written after "Norwegian Wood" had come out and it's considered a bit of a satire that Bob Dylan made of John Lennon's song. "Old Brown Shoe" uses the same chugging rhythm as "Highway 61 Revisited." Using the same rhtythm means nothing in terms of borrowing/copying; there are whole genres (punk rock for example) that use pretty much the same rhythmic pattern for all of their songs. Fernando mentioned "Back in the U.S.S.R." riffing on the Beach Boys. It also uses elements from Chuck Berry. The specific songs are "California Girls" (melody, lyrics, harmony, and backing vocals) and Chuck Berry's "Back in the U.S.A." (guitar riffs, song title, idea of returning home) Elements... not enough for me. "The Ukraine girls rea-" has similar notes to "I wish that all could" and that's as much similarity in the melody as I can find. Alright, it's a similarity, but ephemeral, just 3 or 4 notes. The rest is similarities in style, but style is not borrowing. Every 4/4 classic rock n' roll could sound to Chuck Berry and every surf rock song with a lot of vocal harmonies could sound to the Beach Boys. Influences, but influences is not borrowing as long as the melody is different. I still don't have a song where I can confidently say "the Beatles borrowed this from someone else". Not saying there isn't, only that no fully convincing example has been given yet in my opinion. No one is trying to convince you of anything. Creative people live in their own times, and get ideas from what's around them. This doesn't mean they steal stuff. It means they were inspired to create.
|
|
|
Post by Timeblue on May 20, 2021 7:39:44 GMT
Being creative or deliberately stealing, it's a fine line.....
|
|
|
Post by pelo on May 20, 2021 11:48:42 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on May 20, 2021 21:09:36 GMT
Which songs written by the Beatles heavily draw from other artists? Just curious. I'd say most of them. :/ Most of their songs heavily draw from other artists? So only a small proportion of the Beatles' songs are really original... what a letdown, 30 years thinking the Beatles were creative geniuses...
|
|
|
Post by StrangeMagic on May 20, 2021 21:50:31 GMT
And "Because" and Beethoven's "Moonlight Sonata."
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on May 20, 2021 23:10:56 GMT
I agree on that one.
|
|
|
Post by pelo on May 21, 2021 5:55:10 GMT
:/ Most of their songs heavily draw from other artists? So only a small proportion of the Beatles' songs are really original... what a letdown, 30 years thinking the Beatles were creative geniuses... They WERE creative geniuses because they lifted elements from other songs, combined them in a different way and added new ideas. You are always consciously or unconsciously influenced by someone else. There's a difference between blatant rip-offs and doing your own thing with the borrowed elements. I think it's typical of Jeff Lynne's approach as well. He is a musical magpie, but in a creative way.
|
|