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Post by StrangeMagic on Dec 13, 2019 0:26:56 GMT
I always thought that having Time After Time so close to Hello My Old Friend was wrong. They both have the same flavour, so to speak. Imagine starting the record with Hello My Old Friend!! Ok....maybe not.... But the sequence of "Time After Time" with "After All" as an aftermath to the war theme of the previous song, followed by "Hello, My Old Friend" are the perfect final three chapters to my upcoming trilogy novelizing the double Secret Messages album. I'm only writing "No Way Out" in the second volume, so it will be a couple of years before publication...
I don't claim Jeff intended SM as a concept album, but there's a coherent story. At least I'm finding one.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 13, 2019 3:36:18 GMT
While it's not as obvious as the concept of Time or even Eldorado (which is really just a less developed version of the same basic dream idea, only without the additional space and time travel layer), I still think there's a thematic link running throughout much of Secret Messages. Actually, make that two concepts that seem to blend into each other...
First of all, you have tracks like No Way Out, Four Little Diamonds and Endless Lies that seem to be Jeff paying tribute to very specific genres or periods in musical history, the latter known for taking inspiration from Roy Orbison. Then, Beatles Forever takes this further by serving as a logical conclusion of Jeff's mourning the death of John Lennon, which began on 21st Century Man and continued with the medley performed on the Time Tour. If we take into consideration that this song was recorded between live dates in February 1982 rather than being something that wouldn't have been released until over a year later, it suddenly becomes a lot clearer as to why Jeff felt this might not be worth bothering to keep on the single album. Not one to let a good idea slip him by, what he felt were the best parts ended up being recycled to form the core of Video! on the Electric Dreams soundtrack just months after Secret Messages as a whole was finally available.
Continuing on with the nostalgic idea, there are also songs where Jeff appears to be homesick for Birmingham, only the city he left behind is in the process of changing beyond recognition. Prior to being reworked into Rock 'N' Roll Is King, the lyrics to Motor Factory would have referenced the Austin Longbridge car plant, while its instrumental track featured percussive elements that included metallic percussion - once described as resembling a lathe being struck with a hammer - and even samples of an engine revving. Speaking of sampling, there are two instances of a barking dog, which is even mentioned in Hello My Old Friend, which is perhaps the most obvious case of Jeff singing about Birmingham. On the other hand, maybe he was using imagery of a run-down city as a metaphor for his waving farewell to ELO, since this was to have been the group's swansong? At the very least, his choice of words here succeed in romanticising what some may have dismissed as mundane in the hands of a lesser writer.
Back to the subject of sampling, Time After Time examines the futility of war by ending with a series of explosions, and Hello My Old Friend features heavily distorted clips of Dutch schoolchildren singing Frère Jacques, possibly as a way of signifying lost innocence. By the end of this song, Jeff's voice is almost entirely lost in a cacophony of the repeated nursery rhyme, now sped up, and his guitar emulating the Doppler effect of an emergency siren as its vehicle races through a city, perhaps even the very one where buildings feel as if they are watching your every move? Also, recalling such past efforts as Xanadu* and Shangri-La, we're again transported to a mythical world far beyond the normal on Mandalay, which even deviates from Jeff's usual sound to such a point that I suspect many listeners would struggle to identify this as being an ELO track if they didn't know this detail in advance. However, for much of this album, it seems as if Jeff's overall situation as a stranger far away from a place that was no longer providing him with comfort shaped a large part of its musical and lyrical content. Furthermore, it seems as if he wanted to explore both forward-thinking ideas while also tipping his hat to the artists who helped shape ELO, bringing everything full circle on Hello My Old Friend, which explodes into a template for his post-ELO sound after some soul searching during the breakdown section.
If anything, the nostalgic leanings remind me of the original concept for what became The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper album. For those unaware, that started off as something to have been heavily influenced by scenes around Liverpool, including Strawberry Fields (Forever) and Penny Lane, only the idea wasn't taken beyond those two initial tracks from early into the sessions. Indeed, these songs didn't even make the final cut, being dropped in favour of an even more varied trip that covered expansion of consciousness to a 19th century circus and even a look at contemporary newspaper stories through a psychedelic lens.
This interpretation of Secret Messages is something I'll be expanding in my book, but for now I hope this gets the key points across.
*Yes, I'm aware that Jeff didn't have any say on either the title or direction of this track's lyrics, but it fits with the escapist formula he's often employed in his own work, so I'll use it as an example.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Dec 14, 2019 0:19:29 GMT
ShardEnder, I agree with all your comments about the interpretation of the concept of Secret Messages, except one. My disagreement arises here--I believe "Mandalay" is about a person rather than a place, even in Jeff's mind. Despite our agreement, my trilogy is science fiction.
I hear different words for "Mandalay" than are available online. For example, I get "dissolution" instead of "disillusion." I haven't received my BSCD2 yet, so I can't compare my perception against whatever is printed in there. Should be here any day. But like you said earlier, who knows if those are right?
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 14, 2019 12:50:56 GMT
Now you mention it, I'm almost certain I once read somewhere that Mandalay was about either a person or a pet, though I only know of Jeff having a dog from the Mr. Blue Sky documentary and Lucy subsequently featuring in the logo for his company, Big Trilby Records.
As for the BSCD2 edition of Secret Messages, its lyrics were copied over from previous releases. When it came to adding those five* extra tracks from the originally intended double album, their words were interpreted by two different credited writers, and the first verse of Hello My Old Friend is particularly inaccurate - laughably so, in fact. What's a "clean" tower? Shouldn't it have been obvious from there being cooling towers in the background of the cover art that Jeff was referencing these? Furthermore, we're still no closer to figuring out exactly what he's shouting at the end of this song under all those layers of digital reverb and the building cacophony... Any ideas?
*I know there are technically six, but you can't really count After All when making this point.
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Post by Mattster-Vinyl on Dec 14, 2019 18:57:42 GMT
Hi SharEnder, I do agree that “Hello My Old Friend is such a grand statement that it doesn't really fit anywhere except as the closing track” It’s a shame we don’t have the “welcome to the show tag” integrated better on to the end of it, (there is a very good attempt at it here Then again does Hello My Old Friend work better just faded out ?
Having “Four Little Diamonds/Buildings Have Eyes/Time After Time/Rock ‘N’ Roll Is King” does make a very strong and upbeat side 4
But then again having Time After Time/After All/Hello My Old Friend does seem to fit and flow well.
BTW, who is the female voice on “Time After Time” and why did “After All” get extended from 41 seconds to 2.24 ?
36 years on and we as fans still discuss Secret Messages albums running order and missing tracks, we don’t seem to do that for other great ELO albums like Face The Music or Out Of The Blue. Should Concerto For A Rainy Day have been side 4 of OOTB ? Is a much stronger and better sideg than the actual side 4 ended up being, but I digress….
Secret Messages is a unique and very clever album by a genius that is Jeff Lynne.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 15, 2019 1:28:24 GMT
Let's see if I can answer some of your questions...
The female voice on Time After Time was a certain Mrs. Lynne, and the longer version of After All wasn't something extended later, but was likely from that documented additional test pressing reported to contain further outtakes from the Secret Messages sessions, although we can't be sure until Rob Caiger gives us further information about this. On a related note, just what is on that tape labelled as being from the mythical Garden Rehearsals? I've managed to reasonably assume what existed by this point, though confirmation would help massively. As for whether Concerto For A Rainy Day should have been the closing side on Out Of The Blue, I do agree that it makes for a stronger ending to the album as a whole. However, its "please turn me over" request at the conclusion wouldn't make any sense in this position, unless the intention was to encourage listeners to play side three again, which might work if you really like The Whale or Wild West Hero. Surely I'm not alone in being a fan of those?
Finally, jarring as it may sound, the last known set of March '83 acetates had the "welcome to the show" tag follow Hello My Old Friend after the main song itself had faded out. For better or worse, I'm happy to respect Jeff's original artistic decision, even if it's clear the gap between these two elements was subsequently edited a little. Then again, the 3-11-83 assembly also featured an alternate mix of Secret Messages (the title track, that is), which Bill Bottrell recalls being something he came up with the idea of trying once the rest of the album had been completed. From what he's told me about this, it seems he felt the equipment at Wisseloord Studios was lacking compared to the console at Soundcastle Studios in Silverlake, even if his remix - possibly having a different vocal take by Jeff along with some longer instrumental pieces - was later switched out for the more common variation we all know and love today. What I'd give to hear this for the sake of comparison!
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Post by Mattster-Vinyl on Dec 15, 2019 15:00:12 GMT
Many thanks ShardEnder, I never knew who that female was.
What other outtake tracks do you know of ? (Or is that something you are saving for your book ?)
I do like "Tears In Your Life" that Jeff started in 1982 and finished in 2000, to me it seems to fit in with the style of the Secret Messages album.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 15, 2019 19:49:30 GMT
If my understanding is correct, Jeff was frustrated with how Tears In Your Life was turning out, so he gutted the track and reworked it into After All. However, thanks to Pro Tools, he was finally able to go back and finish the original concept to his satisfaction, which required moving a few parts around then replacing the vocoder - still briefly featured in the complete version - with a three-part harmony.
As for what outtakes I know of from the Secret Messages sessions, here's the full list, plus a few notes on each:
"Ballbuster" Name on tape box for the earliest track recorded at Wisseloord Studios during two-day "flying visit" between dates on European leg of the Time Tour in mid-February 1982. Features Jeff on drums and Richard on piano - later completed for Flashback under the more accurate name of Grieg's Piano Concerto In A Minor, though it also shares some similarities with Jeff's cover of Saturday Nite At The Duck-Pond by The Cougars, which he later recorded for Long Wave and previously played with some of his earliest groups, including The Andicaps.
Tears In Your Life Although reworked into After All, elements of this song would later also surface in Sirens and Night Calls. At the very least, the 2000 version included on Flashback has some vocoder and rototom parts that may be of 1982 vintage.
Helpless Started in 1982 and almost entirely remade for Flashback, though it's possible the strings are vintage Louis Clark arrangements, if not the original recordings.
Beatles Forever In addition to the more common source, an unedited version is believed to exist that features an extra verse.
Train Of Gold Secret Messages (1) During his October 1982 visit to Wisseloord Studios, Dutch ELO fan club founder Diego Diesveld got to hear these two songs in what are described as early or rough mixes.
Secret Messages (2) Early mix with less processed vocals and altenate introduction.
Secret Messages (3) Alternate version from 11-3-83 acetate with longer instrumental guitar sections and different lead vocal takes in places.
Endless Lies Alternate mix from 3-4-83 acetate, described as having quieter drums during introduction.
Take Me On And On Studio demo, featuring only Jeff singing and playing an electric guitar. Recorded soon after this was written during a mixing session late into the Time period - Jeff was supposedly inspired by watching documentary footage of the space shuttle while waiting for a tape to finish copying.
Bluebird Jeff's original home demo - this was the first song he wrote and produced after buying a full Oberheim "system" (OB-Xa synthesiser, DMX drum machine and DSX sequencer), which dates this to November 1981 at the very earliest.
Who's That? Studio outtake from a keyboard overdubbing session for Hello My Old Friend, including the same Oberheim OB-Xa synth brass patch. Also features prominent use of Dennis - the name given to Dave Morgan's DMX, which he modified (possibly using an EPROM programmer) to store custom samples, one of these being a "fart" replayed at various pitches in tune. Later completed by Jeff for Flashback, but retaining many vintage elements.
Motor Factory Recorded on second day of February '82 flying visit to Wisseloord Studios along with No Way Out, Beatles Forever and Train Of Gold, this was the last ELO session to feature Kelly and Mik. Later reworked into Rock 'N' Roll Is King, though metallic percussion, engine sound effects, heavily processed violin solo and wordless background vocals remain from earlier version. However, it is believed that Jeff wiped his original lead vocals from the multitrack tapes to make room for a new take featuring the rewritten lyrics, though a stereo backup of this mix could still exist in the vaults.
Hello My Old Friend Danger Ahead (1) Jeff's original home demos, recorded circa 1981-2 and described by Richard as being superior to their later studio counterparts.
Danger Ahead (2) Reportedly sped up to approximately 3:30 in length, but otherwise identical to most common version. Found on an early cassette assembly of the complete Secret Messages double album with an alternate running order somewhat similar to the 3-4-83 configuration.
Danger Ahead (3) Alternate mix with prominent AMS RMX16 digital effects.
"We Never Say Anything Bad" Interlude found exclusively on the 3-11-83 test pressing sequenced between Letter From Spain and Danger Ahead.
After All Unedited version, as released on the Rock 'N' Roll Is King single.
Four Little Diamonds (1) Extended version with longer introduction, found exclusively on Afterglow, though believed to be a vintage 1982/3 assembly.
Four Little Diamonds (2) Even longer version than (1) - after Jeff asks "how's it go?" then hums the opening guitar riff, he replies with "right" before starting the count-in. This variation is found exclusively on the second disc of the 3-4-83 test pressing.
Finally, let's take a closer look at one of the more revelatory outtakes...
Time After Time Ever wondered why that jarring bridge in the middle of this track sounds like it was lifted in from another song? Well, according to Bill Bottrell, that was exactly what Jeff did! The original source was a previously undocumented leftover he referred to as being entitled Pictures Of You, which matches the lyric repeated during the section used in Time After Time. As with Motor Factory not being available, we can only assume this was wiped or didn't end up being developed further.
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Post by Timeblue on Dec 15, 2019 20:36:57 GMT
It just makes those '2000' tapes of songs even more intriguing, what's the chances that demos like 'Motor City' are on one of them? there must be hundreds of out takes of various songs on there too. These tapes really need to be examined...
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Post by Spin on Nov 21, 2021 16:18:54 GMT
Hello, My Old Friend is a masterpiece. It absolutely overshadows everything else on Time. Could it have been a hit single? Probably no, but it could have gotten some serious airplay on what was called AOR radio during that era.
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