Post by fernandoamado on Sept 24, 2018 21:16:52 GMT
Clear and concise. It's one topic I've never seen discussed with much emphasis, at least in this forum.
The contenders: Jerkin' Crocus (Mott the Hoople) and Ma-Ma-Ma Belle (ELO). Honorable mention for Brown Sugar (The Rolling Stones).
Jerkín' Crocus was released on All the Young Dudes in September 1972, and according to Wikipedia the album was recorded between May and July of the same year. Ma-Ma-Ma Belle was released on On the Third Day in November 1973, and recorded in April of the same year, though there's a demo from March. As you may know, they bear a lot of similarities. The famous guitar riff is almost the same, and Jerkin' Crocus' chorus begins the very same way Ma-Ma-Ma Belle's verse does (although this identity follows the guitar riff melody, so we can say that they're the same similarity). The thing is: Did Jeff Lynne shamelessly steal the basic track of Jerkin' Crocus? The rest of the songs aren't the same, but the skeleton is. The most important parts are...
If you are too lazy to look for the song, here it is:
The song kicks off with the guitar riff, and the chorus is around 00:45.
I tried to do a little bit of research, but let's face it: it was 45/46 years ago, there's not much to look for. What I could notice thanks to the Jeff Lynne Song Database is that ELO and Mott the Hoople shared one or two "festivals" (not sure about the word, or if it was in fact an event of the sort) before the song was born, and even were going to share a show on March 30, 1973, which was cancelled. What I mean is that they were two bands, maybe in a similar period of their lives, sharing the same shows, trying to get a place of their own in the business, and who knows, maybe Jeff got to hear Jerkin' Crocus played live?
I'm not saying Jeff stole the song, as the hypothesis suggests. But maybe he subconsciously plagiarised it, just like the famous George Harrison copyright infringement suit claimed. There's a story Tony Beard (ELO's road manager for their first tours) told in 2006 about Jeff, a toilet and the birth of the song... Only that he remembered it happening in Salford University. The problem, from what I could find, is that ELO played in Salford University for the first (not sure if only) time in 1974 for their Eldorado Tour: Ma-Ma-Ma Belle was more than a year old. Maybe he wasn't remembering correctly? Maybe it was another location before March 1973? But, even if this was the case, what would it mean? Isn't it possible that Jeff was figuring out a riff that he had heard (again, maybe subconsciously)?
We, ELO fans, almost never talk about this one. I think it's one of their best songs, if not their coolest. Is it possible that Jeff stole it?
*Ma-Ma-Ma Belle original LP interlude closing this post*
The contenders: Jerkin' Crocus (Mott the Hoople) and Ma-Ma-Ma Belle (ELO). Honorable mention for Brown Sugar (The Rolling Stones).
Jerkín' Crocus was released on All the Young Dudes in September 1972, and according to Wikipedia the album was recorded between May and July of the same year. Ma-Ma-Ma Belle was released on On the Third Day in November 1973, and recorded in April of the same year, though there's a demo from March. As you may know, they bear a lot of similarities. The famous guitar riff is almost the same, and Jerkin' Crocus' chorus begins the very same way Ma-Ma-Ma Belle's verse does (although this identity follows the guitar riff melody, so we can say that they're the same similarity). The thing is: Did Jeff Lynne shamelessly steal the basic track of Jerkin' Crocus? The rest of the songs aren't the same, but the skeleton is. The most important parts are...
If you are too lazy to look for the song, here it is:
The song kicks off with the guitar riff, and the chorus is around 00:45.
I tried to do a little bit of research, but let's face it: it was 45/46 years ago, there's not much to look for. What I could notice thanks to the Jeff Lynne Song Database is that ELO and Mott the Hoople shared one or two "festivals" (not sure about the word, or if it was in fact an event of the sort) before the song was born, and even were going to share a show on March 30, 1973, which was cancelled. What I mean is that they were two bands, maybe in a similar period of their lives, sharing the same shows, trying to get a place of their own in the business, and who knows, maybe Jeff got to hear Jerkin' Crocus played live?
I'm not saying Jeff stole the song, as the hypothesis suggests. But maybe he subconsciously plagiarised it, just like the famous George Harrison copyright infringement suit claimed. There's a story Tony Beard (ELO's road manager for their first tours) told in 2006 about Jeff, a toilet and the birth of the song... Only that he remembered it happening in Salford University. The problem, from what I could find, is that ELO played in Salford University for the first (not sure if only) time in 1974 for their Eldorado Tour: Ma-Ma-Ma Belle was more than a year old. Maybe he wasn't remembering correctly? Maybe it was another location before March 1973? But, even if this was the case, what would it mean? Isn't it possible that Jeff was figuring out a riff that he had heard (again, maybe subconsciously)?
We, ELO fans, almost never talk about this one. I think it's one of their best songs, if not their coolest. Is it possible that Jeff stole it?
*Ma-Ma-Ma Belle original LP interlude closing this post*