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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 2, 2018 2:40:24 GMT
Well since I was the one who talked about "smoke" and "deafening silence" I should make it clear (as I should have done when I wrote the post) that I was strictly talking about Jeff's actions in regards to his musical career only. I have absolutely no idea how he treats his family and friends. From what was written above he is a charitable guy and that is wonderful. I believe we all have obligation to help others in need if we have the ability to do so. It is great to hear that Jeff does this. I am only talking about the things he has done from the perspective of his career. One of the reasons I love Bruce Springsteen is that in his mid sixties the guy was playing 3 1/2 hour shows which is insane especially considering the high energy show he puts on. And if you went to see him multiple nights at the same venue you might see half the set list change. Bruce does this because he knows people pay a ton of money for his shows and wants to give them their moneys worth. In no way would I expect Jeff to play that long, but 1 1/2 hours is just not acceptable considering the cost of tickets today. And he played two shows at the LA Forum and he did not change one friggin song. Come on Jeff. I know the band knows at least a few other songs. You couldn't change it up for the people who were there both nights? That is just not a good thing to do to your fans. You might ask how much of a difference would playing say two different songs make, and I would say it would show he cares at least a little. There is something about Jeff that makes me uneasy. Again, I am not in anyway saying he is a bad human being. Not at all. But there are little things I have noticed like the liner notes for the remastered CD's where he wrote things about each song but it was only a line or two at best. He does not interact AT ALL with his audience. I know he is shy (or at least I assume so) but couldn't he give the fans a heartfelt 30 second thank you? Would that really be so traumatizing. I remember I paid a crap load of money to see him at Radio City Music Hall in 2016 and the opening act was a bunch of young people playing violins. They were decent, but how come no act people were familiar with?? The stuff about not paying his band mates or mentioning them at the HOF ceremony is a different thing altogether but leaves me uneasy as well.
Jeff is a wonderful musician. He has provided me with hundreds of hours of pure joy listening to his music, but I do not subscribe to the "we should be happy with whatever he gives us" mindset and I just wish he did more than the bare minimum more often.
BMAC, I think you are way off here, blaming Jeff for the length of the show, or even the specific songs he plays. While I'm certain Jeff selects the songs for the tour, I think we would be surprised at how much control Jeff's manager, Craig Fruin, has over certain aspects of the show. Craig certainly planned the cities and venues, and he coordinated the ticket prices with the promoters and venues. He may even have input into show length and the choice to play the same songs for every show. Also, Jeff and the band can't just do a new song without the lighting people developing a new accompanying light and video show. I wonder how long those take to put together? I wonder how long it takes for the band to learn and rehearse a new song? I wonder how long the string players need to transpose and develop their parts from the original recordings? Classically-trained musicians usual need written music to read, and Louis Clark has all that in his possession. He may not want to share. There wasn't much time to rehearse new songs before this tour because many of the musicians were on tour with Gary Barlow up until three or four weeks before Jeff's tour started. At the L.A. Forum, from the fourth row, I saw Jeff adjust his Black Beauty guitar several times, even in the middle of songs, as if it was uncomfortable for him. Those guitars weigh up to 14-15 pounds. They can be weight-relieved, but who knows if Jeff has customized his in that manner. I'm not sure if septuagenarian Jeff Lynne is capable of playing more than 90 minutes, except for a really special occasion, like Wembley. I'm not going to ask him to, just to make me feel like I'm getting more than my money's worth. He's given me my money's worth at all eleven shows I've attended, 1978 to 2018. Two of those were VIP. Please, come back and take my money, Jeff. I'm sorry you weren't satisfied, but I don't think all your complaints are with Jeff. FLAMETHROWER NEEDED OVER HERE!
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Porter
Junior Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Porter on Sept 29, 2018 22:51:53 GMT
I'm gonna say my piece on Jeff Lynne. I love ELO and the music. Jeff Lynne though I think is a dickweed and is just terrible live. I liken him to what Roger Waters kind of was in the 80s and 90s.
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Post by skyclad1904 on Sept 29, 2018 23:31:59 GMT
Thanks for your kind words, you obviously really love ELO and the music...(hopefully you meant that irony???)
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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 30, 2018 3:28:27 GMT
I'm gonna say my piece on Jeff Lynne. I love ELO and the music. Jeff Lynne though I think is a dickweed and is just terrible live. I liken him to what Roger Waters kind of was in the 80s and 90s. Who are you again? Yeah, I hope you are being ironic, but I don't see any emojis. Here's one.
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Post by jackpunch on Sept 30, 2018 7:40:40 GMT
I'm gonna say my piece on Jeff Lynne. I love ELO and the music. Jeff Lynne though I think is a dickweed and is just terrible live. I liken him to what Roger Waters kind of was in the 80s and 90s. Care to elaborate? What makes you think his a dickweed and why is he terrible live? I not saying I agree or disagree just interested to learn your rationale for the comments
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Post by tightrope on Sept 30, 2018 14:52:12 GMT
He's just trolling.
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 30, 2018 16:49:32 GMT
This thread has run its course and is now locked before it turns nasty.
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Post by Horacewimp on Dec 6, 2018 14:13:48 GMT
This thread is being discussed over on Facebook, I’ve reopened it in case anyone has anything to add. It will be locked again if members start trolling.
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Post by Eloise on Dec 9, 2018 21:26:01 GMT
As someone who has adored Jeff for years, my eyes have been opened and I would say that he is a jerk. The music is magic but that doesn't make him a saint. I was so upset to read Chris Groucutt's interview where Chris said that Jeff sued Don Arden, won a huge settlement and then paid 5K each to the rest of the band. To me, that is plain selfishness. Jeff didn't get where he is as a solo act. In my opinion, and I don't know anything about being in a band, it would have been fair to divide the money 8 or 9 ways with Jeff taking 1/4 or 1/3 of the money, and the rest of the money going to the band who share the stage with him. I am pretty sure I read an interview of Mel Gale who was told, "You are in the band". That does not sound like a session player to me. As for his concerts, I was very disappointed that he pretty much played the same stuff that he played last year and the year before. Come on! There is more to ELO than the hits. I have my doubts about going to a concert next year when I think the chance is slim that he will do different songs from the previous years. I still love the music but Jeff is no saint, he's nowhere close.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 9, 2018 23:04:40 GMT
The outcome of that band meeting Chris described was eye-opening to me, but not entirely surprising. However, I've managed to uncover information about quite a few instances where Jeff was far more generous to his colleagues. For one, he initially approached Don Arden at some point ahead of beginning work on Time with the hope that Jet would finance the purchase of a Fairlight CMI, which Jeff really wanted to use on the album so he could better emulate the recent production style of Trevor Horn, who he'd first started taking notice of in late 1980. However, with the company already beginning to struggle, his request was turned down. At this point, Jeff had yet to recover a lot of the lost money that future Time Tour road manager Craig Fruin would help fight to win back, so he was forced to dig into his own pocket. While it's easy to think of present-day Jeff as not having any concerns money-wise, back then he'd just spent much of his fortune on buying Walsh Hall plus a second home on the outskirts of Paris, where his second wife and their two young daughters would soon move in permanently. Under such tight personal circumstances, it must have come as quite the shock when Jeff offered to splash out for not only his own full Oberheim "system" (which then consisted of the OB-Xa synthesiser, DSX sequencer and DMX programmable drum machine), but to gift Richard and new addition Dave Morgan with their own OB-Xas. Not long after, Craig was promoted to Jeff's personal manager, which is a role he's remaining in ever since, and he finally got to experiment with a Fairlight on the tracks recorded for Electric Dreams. Curiously, it's also been mentioned that Jeff received a DMX soon after becoming close friends with George Harrison, so it's not yet known what happened to his earlier model, as used when he wrote Bluebird and put together quite a few home demos Richard once recalled hearing ahead of following these to create what became the main bulk of the Secret Messages album. Anyway, my point is that Jeff has been more than kind to his bandmates - just look at when he called up Richard to participate on the Zoom Tour just months after he'd sold off much of his vintage keyboard collection to raise funds for a local charity. In addition to giving Richard carte blanche to build up a new bleeding edge rig for the upcoming live shows that ultimately never ended up happened, he paid for the MIDI system Marc Mann used on his guitar, which meant he didn't need to consider bringing back Mik... not that anyone involved with ELO Part II or later The Orchestra was likely to be on his shortlist of potential musicians for that venture!
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Post by Timeblue on Dec 10, 2018 0:22:10 GMT
You say he was generous to his colleagues, but this only extended to Richard and Dave it seems. Did Bev get a new drum kit or Kelly a new bass? Not being facetious here but Richard was always Jeffs wingman and so was likely to gain from his good nature.
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Post by eloneen on Dec 10, 2018 0:39:32 GMT
Mel did not have any involvement with Part II, Orchestra, etc., as many of the others did, so I wonder where things stand between him and Jeff now.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 10, 2018 1:32:52 GMT
As is so often the case with modern day ELO outside playing mostly the hits and supervising the occasional catalogue reissue, Jeff doesn't seem the kind of person to really look back on his former colleagues either way, with his hoping for Richard's return being a rare exception. However, I found it quite ironic that Mel was responsible for running the small pressing plant behind mass producing the Surrender single back in 2006 - from what I can remember, he didn't even know the band was still an ongoing concern when this order came in! Regarding how the others were treated, I once read that Bev was often given the task of approaching Don Arden to ask for money because he was the best at holding himself in a fight should negotiations come to this, which they allegedly did on many occasions with Jet's lesser-known acts. Also, my understanding is that all three "core" members (excluding Jeff) had instruments provided through much of their classic run thanks to being in lucrative sponsorship deals. From what I can tell, Richard was an ambassador for Yamaha long after he briefly switched to Oberheim keyboards, Bev endorsed Slingerland* drums, and Kelly used Gibson bass guitars, while Jeff himself appeared in print advertisements for Gibson strings. I've not seen evidence of this myself, but someone once told me they recalled Jeff promoting Neve, AMS, Urei and possibly Harrison studio equipment as well, though I am still to identify the industry magazines where these appearances supposedly featured.
*Bev also played with custom heavyweight drumsticks and Remo heads, not to mention his kit contained exclusively Zildjian cymbals. I won't bore you all with the details I've managed to collect about ELO's gear just yet...
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Post by StrangeMagic on Dec 10, 2018 3:29:14 GMT
You say he was generous to his colleagues, but this only extended to Richard and Dave it seems. Did Bev get a new drum kit or Kelly a new bass? Not being facetious here but Richard was always Jeffs wingman and so was likely to gain from his good nature. I may be wrong about this, but Bev, Richard and Dave were all that was left of the band when Jeff finally got the rest of his money out of Jet and Don Arden. Why would he bestow instruments on people who were no longer appearing on ELO records? I get the impression that Bev had all he needed from sponsorships. And wouldn't have Bev gotten a payday from Don Arden as well? I guess Louis Clark was standing behind the door, although he wasn't technically in the band, but conducted some strings for Secret Messages and played keyboard for the Time tour. Just help me understand what you are saying.
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Post by ShardEnder on Dec 10, 2018 4:00:38 GMT
All the core members of ELO were managed by Don Arden until the early 1980s, when Jeff gravitated to Craig Fruin and Kelly signed with Peter Kuys. I'm not sure what Richard's arrangement was, but Bev remained close to the Ardens until after the formation of Part II, even though that band's first album wasn't technically released via Jet - my understanding is that their early concerts were at least partly funded by a spin-off business under the control of Dave Arden, with that partnership coming to an end once it was clear the new venture wouldn't match the success of their previous group.
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