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Post by eloneen on Nov 19, 2017 4:13:16 GMT
I was thinking this week that I really didn't like "Without Someone" for a good while after hearing it for the first time. I still don't like the little synth intro, but I've grown to like the song quite a bit over the last few months. Dark and brooding, sad... I like sad songs! Likewise, I used to find "Jungle" incredibly annoying and silly, but now I find it really cute and fun. Fun is good! I'm sure many of us have certain ELO songs that we've changed our minds about over time. (I don't think there's a chance I'll ever like "Marston Moor" or "Starlight," though.) Which ELO songs have grown on you over time?
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denver
Junior Member
Posts: 27
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Post by denver on Nov 19, 2017 5:09:45 GMT
Mr. Kingdom comes to mind for me.
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Post by Timeblue on Nov 19, 2017 9:33:41 GMT
I used to hate Down Home Town originally but quite like it now...
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Post by Timeblue on Nov 19, 2017 9:37:24 GMT
I was thinking this week that I really didn't like "Without Someone" for a good while after hearing it for the first time. I still don't like the little synth intro, but I've grown to like the song quite a bit over the last few months. Dark and brooding, sad... I like sad songs! Likewise, I used to find "Jungle" incredibly annoying and silly, but now I find it really cute and fun. Fun is good! I'm sure many of us have certain ELO songs that we've changed our minds about over time. (I don't think there's a chance I'll ever like "Marston Moor" or "Starlight," though.) Which ELO songs have grown on you over time? You don't like Marston Moor? shame on you...... hehe
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Post by eloneen on Nov 19, 2017 12:19:02 GMT
I used to hate Down Home Town originally but quite like it now... I'm OK with it until they start singing about Dixie . I know it's supposed to be tongue in cheek, but that is really visceral for me as a black person.
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Post by Timeblue on Nov 19, 2017 12:29:06 GMT
Because of the slave trade connections of the southern states?
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Post by eloneen on Nov 19, 2017 12:37:28 GMT
This is from the Wikipedia article on the song, underlining by me to highlight the most important details:
"Dixie," also known as "Dixie's Land," "I Wish I Was in Dixie," and other titles, is a popular American song. It is one of the most distinctively American musical products of the 19th century,[1] and probably the best-known song to have come out of blackface minstrelsy.[2] Although not a folk song at its creation, "Dixie" has since entered the American folk vernacular. The song likely cemented the word "Dixie" in the American vocabulary as a toponym for the Southern United States.
Although most sources credit Ohio-born Daniel Decatur Emmett with the song's composition, other people have claimed to have composed "Dixie," even during Emmett's lifetime. Compounding the problem of definitively establishing the song's authorship are Emmett's own confused accounts of its writing, and his tardiness in registering the song's copyright. The latest challenge has come on behalf of the Snowden Family of Knox County, Ohio, who may have collaborated with Emmett to write "Dixie."
The song originated in the blackface minstrel shows of the 1850s and quickly became popular across the United States. During the American Civil War, "Dixie" was adopted as a de facto anthem of the Confederacy. New versions appeared at this time that more explicitly tied the song to the events of the Civil War. Since the advent of the Civil Rights Movement, many have identified the lyrics of the song with the iconography and ideology of the Old South. Today, "Dixie" is sometimes considered offensive, and its critics liken the act of singing it to sympathy for slavery or racial separation in the American South. Its supporters, on the other hand, view it as a legitimate aspect of Southern culture, the fight for states rights and freedom from big government, and heritage. The song was a favorite of President Abraham Lincoln; he had it played at some of his political rallies and at the announcement of General Robert E. Lee's surrender.[3][4]
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Post by babyzoomer on Nov 19, 2017 12:50:05 GMT
Since the point of DHT (other than for fun, a bit like Jungle or WWH) is to gently berate the US (especially the bottom bit) for it's insularity and redneckedness, I'd say that JL's use of the word Dixie was spot on (but very tongue-in-cheek).
Also bear in mind that the song was written after JL had toured the US; obviously he had experienced something there.
And remember that it was written in the 70's - it can unhelpful to apply political correctness retrospectively.
However I utterly respect your point of view (and lived experience!); it is one that I can only guess at.
I still find "Time After Time" a hard listen.
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Post by eloneen on Nov 19, 2017 13:10:29 GMT
Since the point of DHT (other than for fun, a bit like Jungle or WWH) is to gently berate the US (especially the bottom bit) for it's insularity and redneckedness, I'd say that JL's use of the word Dixie was spot on (but very tongue-in-cheek). Also bear in mind that the song was written after JL had toured the US; obviously he had experienced something there. And remember that it was written in the 70's - it can unhelpful to apply political correctness retrospectively. However I utterly respect your point of view (and lived experience!); it is one that I can only guess at. I still find "Time After Time" a hard listen. There is an anecdote in Bev's book about an unfortunate encounter they had in the US that may have been part of the inspiration for the song. Don't know for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised. I'm assuming the whole song was tongue in cheek, and I don't assume any malicious intent, but that little segment from the song "Dixie" is a reminder of some ugly truths for me. I would also say that what may seem to some to be political incorrectness that is reflective of current sensibilities, may actually be something that has always been offensive to others. The general public is just playing catch-up in some cases!
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Post by eloneen on Nov 19, 2017 13:11:23 GMT
babyzoomer Any songs that you've changed your mind about over time?
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Post by Timeblue on Nov 19, 2017 13:17:10 GMT
Like babyzoomer has said, Time After Time is a like it/hate it kind of song but I'm in the like it section.....just.
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Post by vlogdance on Nov 19, 2017 13:49:12 GMT
When Out Of The Blue came out, I always found The Whale "that boring instrumental". Whenever we played the record, Whale time was time to nip out and make a cup of tea, then come back for the Proper Songs. Nowadays, I really like The Whale. I even put down my mug of tea to listen to it when it plays.
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Post by elophile on Nov 19, 2017 14:34:10 GMT
I wasn't crazy about 21st Century Man but as I've mentioned on here before I've begun to hear it as Jeff's own premonition of his return to glory!
Though you ride on the wheels of tomorrow (TIME specifically has been a big influence on future musicians)
One day you're a hero Next day you're a clown There's nothing that is in between (Jeff's rise to fame in the 70s and his fall from fashion in the 80's)
You stepped out of a dream Believing everything was gone (Jeff's rise to fame in the 70s and his fall from fashion in the 80's again)
Return with what you've learned They'll kiss the ground you walk upon (Jeff's surprising, overdue return to popularity!)
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Post by babyzoomer on Nov 19, 2017 21:31:17 GMT
babyzoomer Any songs that you've changed your mind about over time? (On the subject of songs that grate - I love the movie 'Blues Brothers' but the lyrics to Stand By Your Man really grate my feminist nature).
I'm so one-eyed about JL songs that I could only ever say that (for some of his songs) I have moved from liking them to loving them. If necessary, I have changed my taste to align with his. You can call me a tart if you wish.
For 'Surrender' I have moved from loving it to an almost angry "Why would anyone keep that in a cupboard for two decades!".
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Post by tremblinwilbury on Nov 20, 2017 9:29:10 GMT
I used to hate Down Home Town originally but quite like it now... I'm OK with it until they start singing about Dixie . I know it's supposed to be tongue in cheek, but that is really visceral for me as a black person. Down Home Town... Yes, eloneen, I can see why it disturbs you - and with good reason. There is no place for racial segregation. But, let's bear in mind, that Jeff is a VERY good song WRITER. He's great with the choons (obviously!), andI'm sure we all know the words to every song. Most of them have a meaning - and a purpose for being written. I see the song as an independent commentary on 'America' as he found it in the seventies. Bono did more or less the same thing in the eighties with The Joshua Tree. Personally, I see the song as a practice session for Wild West Hero (one of my favourite performances from 'Bust'). DHT is one song I happily skip. There are others... more anon...
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