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Post by Eloise on Feb 5, 2017 20:30:16 GMT
I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but I really, really do not like this song! Do any of you like it or do you skip it too? It's repetitive to me and the screeching of a cat at the beginning grates on my nerves. (Could be the sound that a train makes but either way, it's weird) Thanks for your answers.
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Post by jackpunch on Feb 5, 2017 22:41:36 GMT
It's drivel.
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Post by BSJ on Feb 5, 2017 23:32:32 GMT
When on it fades into the background.
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Post by unomusette on Feb 6, 2017 20:13:49 GMT
I agree, when I try to bring it to mind I can recall parts of it but not the whole song. Not the best on the album by any means.
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Post by tightrope on Feb 6, 2017 21:26:34 GMT
What is puzzling is that song was included and a song like "Hello My Old Friend' was omitted. I think that one is one of the best tunes ever, by any artist.
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Post by orangefiltersky on Feb 7, 2017 15:32:24 GMT
What is puzzling is that song was included and a song like "Hello My Old Friend' was omitted. I think that one is one of the best tunes ever, by any artist. Some time ago when I was listening to the marvellous "Hello My Old Friend" I was thinking exactly the same! "Train Of Gold" is really one of the weakest E.L.O. tunes (at least imho). And I will also never understand why he didn`t include this song on BoP which is abundant with not-so-good material. Imagine BoP would end with this loveletter to the town in which he was born and bred! I could easily have done without "Send It" and "Without Someone" in exchange for this masterpiece.
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 7, 2017 21:38:12 GMT
Although I agree that some of the lesser quality tracks on Balance Of Power were crying to be replaced with some of the better Secret Messages outtakes, there are a few very good reasons why Hello My Old Friend wasn't a good match for what became ELO's final album. There's no denying it would have made a great swansong from a lyrical perspective, but it sticks out too much in terms of its overall production style. Also, the presence of real strings arranged by Louis Clark meant he could have potentially demanded a credit in the liner notes - if you're not convinced of this possibly being a problem, just consider that Endless Lies was only remixed so Jeff didn't have to acknowledge Dave Morgan's background vocal contributions (which explains why the sampled chant heard during the "merry go round" section was only present in the original 1983 version). To further demonstrate this particular motivation, Endless Lies was one of the few 1982 era recordings where Jeff used the Oberheim OB-Xa to simulate orchestral parts, but he'd have needed to more drastically rework Hello My Old Friend. Mandalay was probably too dark for him to recycle on a project that CBS had already voiced reservations with for being too dark in places, while Buildings Have Eyes and After All previously surfaced as b-sides, the latter receiving an extended treatment. Beatles Forever had been heavily reworked earlier the same year sessions at Compass Point began, so the only logical option was for Jeff to write almost entirely new material...
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Post by queenofthehours on Feb 8, 2017 17:50:34 GMT
'Train of Gold' is not my favourite ELO track but there are songs on SM that I like less. At the risk of mentioning it, I don't actually like 'Hello My Old Friend'*. It sounds half finished and choppy and not at all like a proper Lynne production.
(*subject to change)
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 9, 2017 2:50:27 GMT
I don't actually like 'Hello My Old Friend'*. It sounds half finished and choppy and not at all like a proper Lynne production. (*subject to change) Incredibly, a certain magic-fingered pianist agrees with you! To elaborate further, Richard Tandy was once quoted as saying he prefers Jeff's original demo of Hello My Old Friend, recorded in late 1981 as part of the so-called Garden Rehearsals (along with the similar home recording of Danger Ahead, also from those sessions). While these have yet to surface, they were supposedly produced to an even higher standard than the later full band versions, if you can believe that... I personally rate Hello My Old Friend as not just one of the highlights from Secret Messages, but it's perhaps ELO's single finest statement. Intended to serve as a musical bookend to 10538 Overture, it features Jeff lyrically waving farewell to both his group and hometown in a way that I consider far more satisfying than any of his later similar efforts on Balance Of Power, many failing to make the final cut due to being perhaps too on-the-nose for concerned CBS executives.
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Post by livinthing on Feb 9, 2017 7:08:04 GMT
Talking of the string arrangements on Secret Messages, I wonder if Lou actually assembled strings in a room or were they recycled from earlier album tracks? The Diary of Horace Wimp for example!
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 9, 2017 10:30:19 GMT
I've always wanted to ask Lou if parts of his arrangement for Hello My Old Friend really were copied from The Diary Of Horace Wimp or just an intentional reference back to that earlier song, but it's not necessary for two reasons...
First of all, we already know he did record string overdubs in late 1982 (with the Hilversum Radio Orchestra, I believe), plus I'd rather not risk offending him by suggesting that he did a mere copy-and-paste job on what I consider one of ELO's finest tracks!
Besides, Jeff would probably have noticed such repetition - unless this was actually his intention all along? On the other hand, he clearly put a lot of effort into Secret Messages overall, so I just can't imagine him giving less than 100% to what nearly became the group's final statement.
My view might have been very different if this was Balance Of Power we were discussing, as Jeff was so disinterested by then that he allowed Endless Lies to be recycled instead of fighting to get much better, newer songs past objecting parties.
In an alternate timeline, we got Destination Unknown and Caught In A Trap on an ELO album in 1986, leaving Endless Lies to still remain an unreleased leftover that Jeff could have more easily offered to Roy Orbison for either the Wilburys or the Mystery Girl project.
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Post by IvanDSM on Feb 11, 2017 23:53:12 GMT
I LOVE Train of Gold! But then again, I love all ELO songs, so yeah...
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Post by janne on Feb 12, 2017 8:01:30 GMT
Sometimes I think Jeff's songwriting comes a little too easily - so he can't resist knocking out a few tracks on auto-pilot. Then you get Train of Gold or several of the tracks on Alone In The Universe, an album consisting almost entirely by fillers.
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Post by ShardEnder on Feb 12, 2017 15:25:26 GMT
I wouldn't claim to know what Jeff's feeling at any given point, but filler is usually something thrown together later into an album's recording sessions. On the other hand, his idea of a last minute track gave the world Evil Woman and Don't Bring Me Down, so filler isn't necessarily a bad thing. However, the fact Train Of Gold was cut during the initial flying visit to Wisseloord, along with No Way Out, Beatles Forever and Motor Factory (eventually reworked into Rock 'N' Roll Is King) suggests it was anything but filler. If we're talking late additions to Secret Messages, the most obvious examples I'm aware of would be Time After Time and the title track...
As for other songs that existed before ELO regrouped in the studio, I've previously mentioned that Letter From Spain, Danger Ahead and Hello My Old Friend date from the Garden Rehearsals, while Four Little Diamonds, Loser Gone Wild and Endless Lies required some practicing for Dave Morgan to integrate his contributions into these. Also, Bluebird grew out of Jeff trying to compose on the Oberheim OB-Xa rather than a guitar, hence the reason for this keyboard being so prominent in the finished mix. Once the band reached Hilversum, Jeff was inspired to write Stranger, and After All evolved out of frustrations at him not being able to satisfactorily complete Tears In Your Life.
Jeff has previously described Take Me On And On as a personal highlight from this period, leaving Buildings Have Eyes, Mandalay and Helpless as possible filler material. Of course, the latter wasn't finished until years later, and for similar reasons I won't consider Who's That? as it was only ever Jeff playing around with the same equipment he'd go on to use extensively for Hello My Old Friend, including the same OB-Xa brass sound along with a choir effect, achieved by setting the delay time of the AMS RMX16 digital reverb unit to infinite. Finally, I'm excluding Grieg's Piano Concerto In A Minor – or Ballbuster, as its tape box read – for being what Jeff started with Richard upon initially checking out the facilities at Wisseloord.
So, by process of elimination based on what we do know about this period, it's possibly to reasonably assume that Mandalay, Buildings Have Eyes and Time After Time were the only likely candidates to have been recorded for Secret Messages as what we think of as filler tracks. I would have added Secret Messages itself to this list, but Jeff obviously thought enough of this to rename the entire project from Unexpected Moments in its honour. Those other three potential candidates I just managed to isolate were all dropped when their parent album was reduced down to a single disc, the last two relegated to b-side status, though Time After Time was deemed important enough to return as a bonus track on the cassette and CD editions plus a few LP pressings, such as the Japanese Master Sound variant.
The only other song that could have plausibly originated from 1982 is In For The Kill, as a whole verse describes the abandoned cover design of Secret Messages in it double album form. On the other hand, this can't have been filler because Jeff wanted it, or at least Caught In A Trap, on Balance Of Power. Saying that, despite this track prominently featuring the distinctive ride cymbal sample of the Oberheim DMX drum machine, it's much closer musically to Balance Of Power than anything from Secret Messages, so it's possible only the lyrics were either carried over from the Wisseloord sessions or retrospectively intended to call back to the unused sleeve artwork. Whatever the case, it still doesn't really qualify for this particular discussion.
P.S. I'd just like to share with you all that I really do love providing these kinds of extension on my research!
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Post by PowWow on Feb 12, 2017 15:27:24 GMT
I like that song!
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