|
Post by fourlittlediamonds on Nov 5, 2016 21:10:56 GMT
Following on from comments in the BOP thread, I was wondering about the circumstances of the end of ELO? Was there a formal meeting ofJeff, Bev and Richard with management where they formally agreed to end the band or did Jeff just walk away, after BOP and left it to die. It seems to be the latter as Bev said in Rock Family Trees that he approached Jeff in '88 to see what his intentions were and if there was going to be another album and tour, which Bev wanted (although not Richard Tandy, he says). I don't remember seeing any formal announcement in the press , or anywhere else, at the time that the band had split.
Also what prompted the split with Don Arden and Jet after Secret Messages and the move to Epic? I assume it had something to do with the whole SM saga and Jeff's thwarted intentions for it. Or had they had enough of Don Arden and and his ahem, interesting, approach to business management??
|
|
|
Post by tightrope on Nov 5, 2016 21:43:54 GMT
Jeff made has said many times he wanted to end ELO in the early 80's. Secret Messages was to be a double album and would have fulfilled contractual obligations thus ending ELO. As for Arden, he had ripped Jeff off to the tune of 4 million and was quickly taken to court, ending that relationship. I've always thought if Bev had been patient, Jeff would have regrouped ELO after his stint with the Wilbury's in the 90's.
|
|
|
Post by fourlittlediamonds on Nov 5, 2016 22:40:26 GMT
Jeff made has said many times he wanted to end ELO in the early 80's. Secret Messages was to be a double album and would have fulfilled contractual obligations thus ending ELO. As for Arden, he had ripped Jeff off to the tune of 4 million and was quickly taken to court, ending that relationship. I've always thought if Bev had been patient, Jeff would have regrouped ELO after his stint with the Wilbury's in the 90's. I'm aware of Jeff's desire to call it a day, as it were, with ELO but wonder about his method's and attitude, particularly towards his bandmates and for that matter, the fans. Why, (as far as I know) was there no formal sit down and agreed break up of the band with an announcement for fans because if there was I certainly missed it? He just seemed to wander off after BOP and never came back leaving Bev and the others hanging,that'scertainly the impression Bev gives although there is I'm sure another side to the story. But let's face it, Jeff is not really a people-person is he and I don't think he's into personal confrontations?. Look at the way he dealt with Hugh McDowell and Melvyn Gale's firing-an impersonal formal "your services are no longer required" letter from management after five year's together. No wonder they felt hurt and shocked by this approach, though to be fair, Bev and Richard must have agreed with it and didn't bother to say anything personally either! I didn't know about Arden's fraud but frankly am not surprised. Bev's description of him in the book made it clear he was seriously dodgy! All of which makes his decision to ask Arden to manage ELO Part 2 all the more strange or was that a dig at Jeff?
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Nov 8, 2016 13:08:34 GMT
I'll try to keep this reply short (because there's a risk I'll end up simply rewriting a large portion of my upcoming book), but here are some of the key details regarding ELO's split:
First of all, it was Craig Fruin who spotted a discrepancy in how much Jeff was being paid - his reward for helping to recover $4m swindled by certain executives at Jet Records was a promotion to Lynne's personal manager, which is a position he's maintained ever since. Also, Bev did indeed approach Jeff and Richard about a new album in 1988, but neither showed any interest back then. Jeff was no longer contractually obliged to keep ELO active, while Richard had similarly tired of the live aspect, preferring to focus on his own mostly studio-bound group with Dave Morgan and Martin Smith. However, this is when the initial agreement was made that led to what became Part II. As a way of making up for Jeff's absence, Bev enlisted the help of Jim Steinman to produce his new band's album, and the frequent Meat Loaf collaborator offered them Kiss Me Red, which is a song he'd been familiar with after recording a demo for his friend, Rory Dodd. However, this dream collaboration didn't last beyond preliminary negotiations because Steinman was then poached by Def Leppard, and while that venture quickly fell apart, at least he was still able to introduce another of his regular background vocalists, Eric Troyer, to Bev.
Speaking of everyone's favourite drummer, he possessed something of a reputation in the early days for being able to hold his own physically, with the on-stage confrontation that saw Trevor Burton ultimately leave The Move an example of this particular characteristic. Later on, Jeff would often send Bev to negotiate with the Ardens, and my understanding is that their continued presence behind the scenes with Part II was more due to mutual respect than an intentional dig at anyone. The fact is that Bev was never directly ripped off, not to mention he's a close acquaintance and former colleague of Tony Iommi, who through Black Sabbath would surely have provided further connections to the heads at Jet Records. Considering his own background with the Ardens, it's totally understandable that Kelly Groucutt would refuse to permanently join Part II until they were no longer an influence.
This last point is a little controversial and something I don't want to discuss at great length just yet, but Jeff had very personal reasons not to revisit ELO for a while. He's never really been the kind to speak openly about his private life, though a source told me the demands of being away from his second wife and two young daughters for so long is a major reason why his marriage went on to fail. Despite this, he moved in with George Harrison for six months as a "guest" at Friar Park while the pair worked together. I've been told a major reason for this was because the former Beatle saw a little of himself in Jeff and felt it best to keep the ex-ELO leader under his wing, using the making of Cloud Nine and Lynne's significant involvement in establishing the Traveling Wilburys as a distraction from certain problems the normally upbeat Mr. Blue Sky has only hinted at...
Let's just say that while you're in a band taking time off from recording or touring then a social drink with friends is almost expected, only far less so if struggling to handle the pressures of fame alone. With money regularly going missing, unwanted public appearances scheduled, legal battles taking place and more formulaic products demanded from various companies when all you want to do is further yourself creatively without compromising your already fragile domestic situation, would it be much of a surprise to anyone if Jeff did turn to the bottle for escapism from his life in 1986? Just as Discovery was heavily inspired by the arrival of Sandi Kapelson in his life, I think it speaks volumes that Jeff only found the encouragement to finally rework that long-delayed second solo album into Zoom once Rosie Vela entered the picture, and I'd be willing to similarly attribute his recent activity to Camelia Kath's presence.
|
|
|
Post by elophile on Nov 10, 2016 14:14:44 GMT
Just as Discovery was heavily inspired by the arrival of Sandi Kapelson in his life, I think it speaks volumes that Jeff only found the encouragement to finally rework that long-delayed second solo album into Zoom once Rosie Vela entered the picture, and I'd be willing to similarly attribute his recent activity to Camelia Kath's presence. Aww... so Jeff just needs the support of a good woman! Think of how well he could be doing with a harem of forum members by his side! And Camelia could still be his number one... I wouldn't mind... Some of the other forum members may feel differently ( wolvesgirlgonewild ) but I would be satisfied if Jeff would just give me a nice pat on the head every now and then.
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on Nov 10, 2016 16:41:48 GMT
Maybe wolvesgirlgonewild would be satsified if Jeff gave her his trousers every now and then. As for the idea being discussed, the names of many of the songs don't exactly seem to suggest the joy of having an inspiring woman by your side: "Ain't it a drag", "I'm leaving you", "Dirty to the bone" and, more than any other, the song that gives name to the album: "Alone in the universe".
|
|
|
Post by fernandoamado on Nov 10, 2016 18:28:37 GMT
Maybe wolvesgirlgonewild would be satsified if Jeff gave her his trousers every now and then. As for the idea being discussed, the names of many of the songs don't exactly seem to suggest the joy of having an inspiring woman by your side: "Ain't it a drag", "I'm leaving you", "Dirty to the bone" and, more than any other, the song that gives name to the album: "Alone in the universe". I think that the fact that he is encouraged by a woman doesn't need to be made explicit on the lyrics. And, the way I see it, in AITU Jeff only felt the lyrics on When I Was a Boy and The Sun Will Shine on You, the rest are just sugar for his compositions. Yes, he was inspired by Vela for Moment in Paradise and Stranger on a Quiet Street, and by his second wife for Telephone Line. I wonder about Letter From Spain, though... BTW I can't wait anymore I need someone over "Team Jeff" say something about the new album.
|
|
|
Post by ShardEnder on Nov 10, 2016 19:08:31 GMT
I wonder about Letter From Spain, though... Sure, there's little doubt that Jeff was joking to a point when he said Letter From Spain originally referenced France instead, but outside the obvious pun, didn't his second wife move into a property on the outskirts of Paris around the period ELO started work on Secret Messages?
|
|
|
Post by wolvesgirlgonewild on Nov 10, 2016 21:23:46 GMT
Just as Discovery was heavily inspired by the arrival of Sandi Kapelson in his life, I think it speaks volumes that Jeff only found the encouragement to finally rework that long-delayed second solo album into Zoom once Rosie Vela entered the picture, and I'd be willing to similarly attribute his recent activity to Camelia Kath's presence. Aww... so Jeff just needs the support of a good woman! Think of how well he could be doing with a harem of forum members by his side! And Camelia could still be his number one... I wouldn't mind... Some of the other forum members may feel differently ( wolvesgirlgonewild ) but I would be satisfied if Jeff would just give me a nice pat on the head every now and then. I think if Jeff acknowledged my existence in some way I would be happy but if he sends me cheeky pics of him in his trousers every now and then that would make me on Cloud Nine (pun intended)
|
|
|
Post by elophile on Nov 10, 2016 23:17:53 GMT
he was inspired by Vela for Moment in Paradise and Stranger on a Quiet Street, and by his second wife for Telephone Line. I can't remember where but I read a pretty compelling argument for Telephone Line being written about Jeff's first wife not his second. The gist of it was that the song is about a relationship that's over, not one that's just beginning. When I read this it made so much sense and fits much better as an explanation for the sentiment expressed it TL. I have just assumed that All My Life is about Camelia.
|
|
|
Post by fernandoamado on Nov 10, 2016 23:36:44 GMT
I can't remember where but I read a pretty compelling argument for Telephone Line being written about Jeff's first wife not his second. The gist of it was that the song is about a relationship that's over, not one that's just beginning. When I read this it made so much sense and fits much better as an explanation for the sentiment expressed it TL. I have just assumed that All My Life is about Camelia. Jeff once said that it was about a girl he had over America, back on '76, and he was already married. It seems as a break-up song, I know, but it isn't like that. It's just a bluesy feeling for not being next to the one he loves... Interesting thing about All My Life. I think it's another Jeff's last-minute lyrics.
|
|
|
Post by fernandoamado on Nov 10, 2016 23:38:45 GMT
Sure, there's little doubt that Jeff was joking to a point when he said Letter From Spain originally referenced France instead, but outside the obvious pun, didn't his second wife move into a property on the outskirts of Paris around the period ELO started work on Secret Messages? I love that song. It's content is very deep, emotionally speaking.
|
|
|
Post by BSJ on Nov 10, 2016 23:39:23 GMT
Think the same about song being for Camelia, elophile.
|
|
|
Post by tightrope on Nov 12, 2016 0:45:17 GMT
Think the same about song being for Camelia, elophile . Jeff said in an interview that All My Life was inspired by Camelia.
|
|