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Post by claytonm4500 on Aug 10, 2021 6:06:24 GMT
Hi,
Early in the Time Tour (September to at least Oct 3, 1981), ELO performed Ticket to the Moon during their shows. By October 8, 1981, the song was dropped and according to a fan who talked to Dave Morgan, it was claimed to not fly well on stage.
I was curious if anyone here knew if bootlegs exist from these early shows that include Ticket to the Moon. The arrangement has been described as either a Jeff solo effort or a full band arrangement, which makes it more intriguing. All the bootlegs I have do not include it. Posts here or private messages are welcome about it if anyone has information on where to find it.
Thanks!
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 10, 2021 10:19:16 GMT
I don't know the reason why but Here Is The News was not played in Europe and was replaced by The Way Life's Meant To Be. I mentioned on another thread that the tour didn't really showcase Time that well (Jeff not supporting Time? where have we heard that before....)
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 10, 2021 11:51:18 GMT
By the Time Tour, ELO's setlists had mostly become static from one date to the next, though a few variations still occurred. For example, Ticket To The Moon being dropped partly into the initial US leg, or The Way Life's Meant To Be replacing Here Is The News once they reached continental Europe. However, one documented anomaly was the 02-18-1982 show in Lyon, where Jeff made the decision to switch out the more vocally demanding newer addition for Here Is The News again, only to then sing this in a way that sounds like he's trying to revert to his style of delivery from the Idle Race era completely unrehearsed, leading to what is very much a wildcard performance I'm probably not describing too well.
As for whether we'll ever get to hear that live arrangement of Ticket To The Moon, there are two possible options. An audience recording and some amateur video footage apparently exists of 10-03-1981, but after being promised a fan would get in touch once they'd checked to see if they could find this in their collection, things went quiet. Alternatively, it's believed that Brian "HQ" Jones taped everything straight off the mixing desk each night for the band to review, and he reportedly gave a cassette source for 02-23-1982 to Pete King so he could learn songs before temporarily replacing Bev. Over the years, much of Brian's archive found its way onto eBay, though I've never seen any mention of his soundboard references surfacing - if those had survived, you can be sure Jeff's team would have quickly made some kind of deal to ensure these are never heard again, considering how much of a perfectionist he is.
(On a somewhat related note, pro-shot material from this period is almost definitely out there, but that's a whole different matter, and I'd rather not get into it...)
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Post by cleldo on Aug 10, 2021 14:33:37 GMT
Pro shot material...wouldn't that be a fantastic anniversary release
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 10, 2021 17:34:04 GMT
For various reasons, that is extremely unlikely to ever happen...
First of all, that footage was filmed by a production company in advance of Jeff signing a contract that would have led to him needing to deliver more albums than he was already obliged to under his existing deal with Jet and CBS, so he declined the offer. As a direct result of this, all the raw material was held in storage, which brings me on to the second point quite nicely. There are still no guarantees the raw material has survived this long. A few years ago, I'd managed to find where this was being kept up to a rough window, but it's also very possible everything was thrown out, since there had been no efforts to pay for its release, and the facility in question would probably much rather dedicate its limited resources to preserving media with a higher chance of making a return on such investment.
Even if terms were to be reached, the detail of whether the captured performances are even good enough to use remains. Jeff originally went to Wisseloord Studios to review the tapes for what's believed to have been at least one of the shows from ELO's residency at Wembley Arena in late '81, only to scrap a planned release because he felt there was some issue, though we don't know if this related to technical problems or something relating to the musicianship. Rather than try fixing this, he instead decided not to waste the trip and tested out the facility's sound. A day later, impressed with those results, he was back with the rest of the group, returning again from August '82 to March '83, and the rest is history.
The fact we've never seen or heard anything professional from the Time Tour outside that brief news report from the initial rehearsals (which only surfaced a few years ago) suggests that Jeff wasn't completely averse to acknowledging this period up to a point, though I might have expected something to show up earlier - perhaps a track here or there on a retrospective like Flashback, if not the expanded 2001 remaster of Time itself. I guess my personal dream to finally have something official from this era might yet come true, but the stars would need to align in a way that is enough of a miracle in itself. As always, I'll stay optimistic while keeping an eye on whatever gaps the collecting scene might be able to help fill.
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Post by lawrev on Aug 11, 2021 0:07:38 GMT
More lost opportunities in the ELO world. That would be an excellent title of a new thread: Lost ELO Opportunities.
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Post by claytonm4500 on Aug 11, 2021 9:08:46 GMT
I don't know the reason why but Here Is The News was not played in Europe and was replaced by The Way Life's Meant To Be. I mentioned on another thread that the tour didn't really showcase Time that well (Jeff not supporting Time? where have we heard that before....) ELO tours most of the time did not seem to represent their parent album enough, but I feel that Time was represented quite well for what it was. "Prologue"/"Twilight", "Yours Truly, 2095", "From the End of the World", "Hold on Tight" were the consistent ones, with "Ticket to the Moon" dropped early on because it "did not fly very well" according to someone who asked Dave Morgan about it. "Here is the News" and "The Way Life's Meant to Be" were performed in promotion of their respective singles. This amounts to at most 6 songs from Time being played at the early shows, with only 4 non-Time tracks ("Evil Woman", "Livin' Thing", "Don't Bring Me Down", "Roll Over Beethoven") being fully performed consistently. Of course, if there was no Tribute to John Lennon, could we have had "Rain is Falling", "The Lights Go Down" or "21st Century Man" be played in this spot? Hard to say. Would love to know your thoughts.
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 11, 2021 10:14:37 GMT
I think the John Lennon tribute should only have been done a few times, I think to have a tribute for the whole tour seemed a bit excessive given that he had died a year earlier. Like you say,could they have done more songs in that space? Jeff probably used it as an excuse to not do it....(I'm joking before anyone starts...)
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Post by orioles70 on Aug 11, 2021 14:57:50 GMT
if the world will go to see Xanadu the Musical, why not TIME the Musical? a rock sci fi dramedy w/ characters that are thinly disguised versions of Elon Musk and Richard Branson
come on Jeff, I'm sure your agent knows a guy that knows a guy
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 11, 2021 15:15:08 GMT
Just a few quick points I'd like to make for now...
1. Although it was promoted as the Time Tour, don't forget that ELO's live dates in 1981 and 1982 were also the live debut of tracks from Discovery, which ate into the amount of space they could dedicate to performing cuts from what was then their latest album.
2. That medley in tribute to Lennon did feel as if it outstayed its welcome, but then Jeff still wasn't done with that sentiment, as he was planning to release Beatles Forever as late as April of 1983. While that was less obvious in its specific intentions, I suspect part of the reason this ended up being dropped from Secret Messages is because he'd been convinced it was far too late.
3. The reason I got into ELO at all is because my local high school put on a drama production built around the songs of Time, which I'm fairly certain wasn't an official musical. Still, I remember certain details of it fondly, such as how I was brought on so they could make use of my Yamaha PSS-680 (which had a patch that came very close to that Jeff and Richard showcased extensively on the Oberheim OB-X, especially once you enabled portamento and made use of the pitch wheel) or the way the stage was split into two parts, switching between these sides to represent songs that were set in either 1981 or the future of 2095.
4. In addition to the songs already listed, Telephone Line and briefly Do Ya were the only others performed outside the medley format. When you think about how some concerts were over in roughly 60 minutes, particularly once you factor in the breakneck pace of certain arrangements, I'm genuinely surprised more wasn't said about how little value for money ELO was offering in a live environment. I guess their absence from touring since late '78 and recent singles introducing what was then exclusive content were enough to make up for this shortcoming.
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 11, 2021 15:46:39 GMT
Just a few quick points I'd like to make for now... 1. Although it was promoted as the Time Tour, don't forget that ELO's live dates in 1981 and 1982 were also the live debut of tracks from Discovery, which ate into the amount of space they could dedicate to performing cuts from what was then their latest album. 2. That medley in tribute to Lennon did feel as if it outstayed its welcome, but then Jeff still wasn't done with that sentiment, as he was planning to release Beatles Forever as late as April of 1983. While that was less obvious in its specific intentions, I suspect part of the reason this ended up being dropped from Secret Messages is because he'd been convinced it was far too late. 3. The reason I got into ELO at all is because my local high school put on a drama production built around the songs of Time, which I'm fairly certain wasn't an official musical. Still, I remember certain details of it fondly, such as how I was brought on so they could make use of my Yamaha PSS-680 (which had a patch that came very close to that Jeff and Richard showcased extensively on the Oberheim OB-X, especially once you enabled portamento and made use of the pitch wheel) or the way the stage was split into two parts, switching between these sides to represent songs that were set in either 1981 or the future of 2095. 4. In addition to the songs already listed, Telephone Line and briefly Do Ya were the only others performed outside the medley format. When you think about how some concerts were over in roughly 60 minutes, particularly once you factor in the breakneck pace of certain arrangements, I'm genuinely surprised more wasn't said about how little value for money ELO was offering in a live environment. I guess their absence from touring since late '78 and recent singles introducing what was then exclusive content were enough to make up for this shortcoming. ' Time the Musical' sounds like a great idea to base one around. Wish I'd known about it back then, I would have popped over to see it since you only live a couple of miles away!
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Post by ShardEnder on Aug 11, 2021 18:14:06 GMT
The strange thing is that it was called Discovery, which does fit better considering this was also the name of a long-running space shuttle. I've long since forgotten details of the actual plot, but it's possible they were intentionally making that reference. Also, the musical director had clearly done his research, as I vividly recall Julie Don't Live Here being included in the main show, while The Bouncer served as a song performed at the very end by the entire cast once they'd made a curtain call. One of my relatives was more involved with this production, and they were given a tape that was just the main Time album. I believe there was some kind of note about how one missing track would go between the two sides, while the other was to be put on the end. Once they'd finished the show, I ended up getting that cassette, and it somehow managed to last me just over four years before I ended up replacing it with a vinyl copy.
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Post by lawrev on Aug 12, 2021 1:20:59 GMT
I thought the Lennon tribute was excellent and well worth its inclusion on the U.S. Time Tour. Especially considering at the time that Harrison had All Those Years Ago in May 1981 and McCartney's Here Today off Tug of War in 1982. Lynne sounded so much like Lennon I'm happy he did the tribute. I'd rather have that than Rain is Falling of another track off Time.
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Post by eloneen on Aug 12, 2021 1:56:49 GMT
When you think about how some concerts were over in roughly 60 minutes, particularly once you factor in the breakneck pace of certain arrangements, I'm genuinely surprised more wasn't said about how little value for money ELO was offering in a live environment. I guess their absence from touring since late '78 and recent singles introducing what was then exclusive content were enough to make up for this shortcoming. No complaints here! I saw ELO on the Time Tour in Baton Rouge, LA. I am a huge Hall and Oates fan, too, so to see my two favorite bands at the same event was an absolute dream come true for 16 year old me! I don't remember lots of specifics (Fred and the countdown to the start of the ELO set stand out, for sure), but I do remember being absolutely delighted!
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Post by Timeblue on Aug 12, 2021 10:12:09 GMT
When you think about how some concerts were over in roughly 60 minutes, particularly once you factor in the breakneck pace of certain arrangements, I'm genuinely surprised more wasn't said about how little value for money ELO was offering in a live environment. I guess their absence from touring since late '78 and recent singles introducing what was then exclusive content were enough to make up for this shortcoming. No complaints here! I saw ELO on the Time Tour in Baton Rouge, LA. I am a huge Hall and Oates fan, too, so to see my two favorite bands at the same event was an absolute dream come true for 16 year old me! I don't remember lots of specifics (Fred and the countdown to the start of the ELO set stand out, for sure), but I do remember being absolutely delighted! For a 16 year old to watch your idols must have been amazing even if it was only for an hour, we can look back now and say that fans WERE short changed but back then even 45 minutes would have been great...
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