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Post by Timeblue on Sept 25, 2020 18:53:29 GMT
Who does this upstart from Shard End and part time LA resident think he is, threatening you? Haha,keep up the good stuff. Seriously though,to me it sounds like there IS something in the ether regarding official releases...
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Post by Chippa on Sept 25, 2020 19:05:08 GMT
Following yet another period offline earlier, the thread has now been moved to the off-topic section of the Hoffman message board, which means it can only be viewed by registered users (despite remaining very much relevant to a music forum). Worst of all, it's almost certainly guaranteed to quickly fade into obscurity now because I've been restricted from contributing anything further to the discussion. In the eyes of Team Jeff, I'm regarded the face of The Bug Club, and this collective is now evidently regarded as a threat to potential revenue. Does this mean there are official releases coming soon, or did the powers that be just finally grow tired of being shown up by a group of connected, knowledgeable and enthusiastic fans? At this point, the only important thing is that I still have contact with my sources. When you say "Team Jeff", do you mean people from his inner circle, or just normal fans? Cause honestly, I highly doubt anyone from his management etc. has any stroke with some fairly obscure internet forum.
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 25, 2020 19:31:35 GMT
Through that thread alone, I'd been able to speak directly with Rob Caiger and the other following insiders:
Thomas Walsh (Pugwash frontman and one of Jeff's closest friends - our discussions were increasingly negative) Bill Bottrell (wrote under a very obvious pseudonym, and we've gone on to have some great private conversations) Mike Stevens (via a representative, who requested that I drop a certain branch of research I'd been working on) ? (a mastering engineer at Sony who provides insights into what Jeff wants and news of upcoming projects) ? (a member of JLELO's road crew - this person keeps me in the loop on certain topics, including Richard's status) ? (a lawyer connected to at least one former member of ELO Part II with extensive knowledge of old contracts) ? (a high profile collector who has set me up with digital samples of two acetates - I'm sure you know the ones)
Sorry for having to blank out a few names, but for obvious reasons, I need to protect a few of my sources.
P.S. Obscure? The Steve Hoffman Music Forums prides itself on being a place where fans can interact with professionals!
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Post by Timeblue on Sept 25, 2020 19:59:17 GMT
You walk in esteemed circles!
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Post by helpless on Sept 25, 2020 20:12:18 GMT
I've been banned, too ("You are no longer able to reply to the thread Electric Light Orchestra - Secret Messages as originally intended. Reason: Posting links to unreleased material that infringes an artists copyright"). The reason: I had posted a few youtube links. :-( Now that we find ourselves here (not only forced), I'd like to repeat my question, which seems to have been deleted by mistake - in the hope that you (ShardEnder) have got a clue: :wave: Allegedly the origins of Helpless date back to 1982. The strings don't sound like Lynne, Tandy & Clark to me, however, but more like the comparatively more thrilling approach of Rainer Pietsch, which you can also hear on Time. Is it possible that Helpless originates from the Time sessions?
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 25, 2020 21:06:19 GMT
I'm almost certain that Helpless was started in 1981, reworked the following year then completed for Flashback using elements from the aborted '82 attempt, but isn't it odd how the chorus to this song works identically if you replace the "help, help helpless" part with the title of Time Transporter?
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 25, 2020 21:33:02 GMT
Sorry to hear about the issues you have had with the Steve Hoffman Forum ShardEnder and helpless for what it’s worth this forum is totally independent and any posts and threads you post will not be hidden or deleted.
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Post by arthur10538 on Sept 25, 2020 21:47:45 GMT
On this spanish link: www.elosp.com/time-doble-acetato/They say that Rob Caiger is sure that aside from the B-sides released in the 2001 remaster there's nothing left to release of the "Time" Period, also I've seen some screenshots of a fan showing the Tracklist of the double acetate to Rob Caiger on twitter and Rob said that he had never seen that tracklist before,that makes me think that maybe simply they don't have that version of "Time" in their vaults (some years ago I've read that some material of the archives was stolen or lost I'can't remember exactly)...Also I don't know if Jeff's memory is good for this stuff..I remember reading the Flashback Booklet and when he commented "Great balls of fire" saying:"This is a live version,I don't remember where it was recorded but this is Rock n Roll"...I was like:"C'mon Jeff your band has only one live official album!".If he forgot about Long Beach that means that He could maybe forgot "Time Transporter" and "Sad Affair" too?
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 25, 2020 21:57:41 GMT
There are just so many inconsistencies... Time Transporter doesn't exist, there are no further Time outtakes, yet we have something at the end of Hold On Tight in its Flashback form. Also, Rob Porter had an entry for Sad Affair on his site (including lyrics quoted from an engineer who is credited as working on the Time sessions), but was then asked to remove these. Rob isn't ELO's archivist any more, though he's apparently visited the owner of the 5-20-81 acetates quite recently to see if these really contain material that potentially isn't backed up in the official vaults, which ties in with a comment I previously received from someone who claimed to once have access to a safety copy of the Time multitracks. Taking this much further, the FTM store was either closed due to lack of interest or because it was being investigated for not being able to deliver products despite the payments for these already being taken, and Rob even said at one point that Jeff approved a Legacy Deluxe Edition of Secret Messages, then we got the highly disappointing 2018 version. Rob offered to set the record straight on the Hoffman forum, only to disappear again. Why can't we ever get a straight answer? At this point, his inconsistency has itself become a consistency!
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Post by trekkielo on Sept 26, 2020 2:05:34 GMT
also I've seen some screenshots of a fan showing the Tracklist of the double acetate to Rob Caiger on twitter and Rob said that he had never seen that tracklist before That would be me.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 26, 2020 2:58:24 GMT
Following yet another period offline earlier, the thread has now been moved to the off-topic section of the Hoffman message board, which means it can only be viewed by registered users (despite remaining very much relevant to a music forum). Worst of all, it's almost certainly guaranteed to quickly fade into obscurity now because I've been restricted from contributing anything further to the discussion. In the eyes of Team Jeff, I'm regarded the face of The Bug Club, and this collective is now evidently regarded as a threat to potential revenue. Does this mean there are official releases coming soon, or did the powers that be just finally grow tired of being shown up by a group of connected, knowledgeable and enthusiastic fans? At this point, the only important thing is that I still have contact with my sources. Could granting Kelly co-composer status on "Rock 'n' Roll is King" have been too much for them? When you stab the toe of the giant...
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 26, 2020 13:38:48 GMT
The tipping point was apparently me discussing the origin of several Eldorado outtakes that have started to surface recently, since these are technically bootlegs (despite being sourced from a set of official CDR acetates containing potential bonus tracks intended for the 2001-7 catalogue remastering campaign). However, certain figures had been looking to silence me for a while, and this was their perfect opportunity. My research only ever goes where the facts take me, which may be a little too much for those who either don't like to share credits or entered into out-of-court settlements that prevented either party from discussing such authorship disputes, even though I managed to uncover this information via other means.
P.S. Speaking of songwriting claims, it's it odd that several ELO Part II tracks are currently listed on Jeff's ASCAP profile? Knowing there is little chance they'll ever be in a position to contest this, could a loophole of this kind be all it takes to keep their work off streaming platforms, denying them potential revenue while also serving as a way to slowly erase them from the greater public consciousness?
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Post by helpless on Sept 26, 2020 13:50:46 GMT
I've been banned, too ("You are no longer able to reply to the thread Electric Light Orchestra - Secret Messages as originally intended. Reason: Posting links to unreleased material that infringes an artists copyright"). The reason: I had posted a few youtube links. :-( In the meanwhile, I had contacted member services and explained that I had no idea that the links I had posted were illegal.
As a result, I was let back into the thread, but I am still under surveillance: every single message I send has to be approved, which takes an enormous amount of time.
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Post by Horacewimp on Sept 26, 2020 13:53:34 GMT
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Post by helli on Sept 26, 2020 14:22:57 GMT
In the meanwhile, I had contacted member services and explained that I had no idea that the links I had posted were illegal.
As a result, I was let back into the thread... Same here with me
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