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BLM
Jun 26, 2020 19:25:31 GMT
Post by Timeblue on Jun 26, 2020 19:25:31 GMT
Not that Jeff would ever play it live,but would Down Home Town be considered as bad taste now due to the deep south connotations? I had a chat a while back with a well known poster on here and she regarded it as offensive so what do other forumites think?
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Post by claytonm4500 on Jun 26, 2020 19:53:20 GMT
I wouldn't go as far to say it's offensive as it seems, in a way, more of a call to the southern U.S. music rather than the South itself. However, considering the passionate nature of the movement and protests, it certainly would be considered poor-taste if Jeff surprised everyone with that song.
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Post by orioles70 on Jun 26, 2020 20:53:06 GMT
I like the energy of that song and I think the lyrics are intended to describe an urban / rural divide - as in "don't put our little town down".
But it's easy to see how the lyrics could be interpreted to be about a black/white divide or a north/south divide - especially given current events. Whether someone takes offense depends entirely on what the words bring to mind for them.
Jeff could do a lyric rewrite and salvage a pretty good song. On the other hand, Sweet Home Alabama by Skynrd has the same issues and it gets played all the time.
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BLM
Jun 26, 2020 21:12:12 GMT
BSJ likes this
Post by Chippa on Jun 26, 2020 21:12:12 GMT
I've always looked at the song as on over-the-top parody. Just a little silliness, nothing more, nothing less.
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Post by eloneen on Jun 26, 2020 22:20:31 GMT
OK. Here we go...What is so offensive to me about "Down Home Town" is the inclusion of a few lines of the racist song "Dixie," which celebrated the antebellum south and presented the enslavement of African Americans in a positive way. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_(song)DHT is probably supposed to be tongue in cheek, but that part offends me, and it has for some time. That's not just a function of this current climate. I think many, if not most, other black people would also take offense and have a "WTF?/ Oh, hell no!!" reaction to that part of the song. It's that visceral. The current movement and protests are hopefully opening other people's eyes to things like this that have been offending African Americans and other people of color for decades...It's about time. I would prefer not to comment any more on this topic.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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BLM
Jun 27, 2020 20:38:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 20:38:56 GMT
Fascinating discussion.
But what is BLM?
Edit: I'm such an idiot. Carry on.
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BLM
Jun 27, 2020 21:01:10 GMT
Post by unomusette on Jun 27, 2020 21:01:10 GMT
I like the energy of that song and I think the lyrics are intended to describe an urban / rural divide - as in "don't put our little town down". But it's easy to see how the lyrics could be interpreted to be about a black/white divide or a north/south divide - especially given current events. Whether someone takes offense depends entirely on what the words bring to mind for them. I would agree, I've always just heard it as being about small town America and like Chippa as a parody. But I know nothing about the history of the Dixieland song and if it has such a deep and emotional meaning for black people I can see how they would be affected by it being included.
Whether Jeff meant anything by it only he can know. By the time Face The Music came out he had spent a fair amount of time touring the USA and would have had more chance than the average Brit to become acquainted with the issues.
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Post by eloneen on Jun 28, 2020 2:00:02 GMT
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Post by StrangeMagic on Jun 28, 2020 6:31:33 GMT
Completely agree with eloneen that Down Home Town's use of the snippet of Dixie is offensive. It was offensive in the 1970s and it's doubly offensive now.
I was raised mostly in the South. Public schools were desegregated when I was in the eleventh grade in 1968. "Dixie" was our football team's fight song. We voted on a new fight song because the old one was deeply insulting to the African Americans in our student body. If we as white southern high school students knew about the insensitivity of using "Dixie"... I wouldn't expect Jeff as a Brit to be familiar with this piece of American culture, but he should have done more research.
I interpret "Down Home Town" itself as making fun of dumb rednecks--probably the ones who gave ELO a hard time about their clothes and hair in hardcore redneck towns. Doesn't Bev mention one of these incidents in his book? But that's no excuse to use a musical symbol of oppression in a song.
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Post by tremblinwilbury on Jun 28, 2020 6:37:59 GMT
I promised myself that I wouldn't comment on this subject - because I'm from a background that's traditionally been ignorant of the suffering endured by African Americans.
But, that isn't true anymore. I should give my opinion.
The 'Knee' is a challenge to society to change its attitudes and to treat African Americans with respect.
Dixie… Understanding of the suffering, in the 70's, was non-existent. It was sung and referred to without any thought of its origin or meaning. That DOESN'T excuse it.
So, how do we judge its use and those old references now? With care.
Jeff criticised war in Boy Blue. Perhaps in DHT he was echoing the prevailing sound associated with the South - according to non African Americans.
Anyway, I've never liked DHT. I skip it whenever I listen to FTM.
Thinking of certain American acts altering their names, dropping those old 'associations'... It would've been better if they'd changed them completely. Sometimes old names stick in the mind. Even today, people will say Czechoslovakia, when they mean the country with Prague as its capital. "The Chicks" - do you think that name will stick?
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Post by orioles70 on Sept 8, 2020 21:12:01 GMT
2020 has been a very rough year, but hopefully it will inspire positive change a local band just put this song out and it has a companion piece where the writer explains his viewpoint I could imagine some iconic anthems being written in this environment. But with Covid, will anyone gather to hear them? yes - somehow, some way
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Post by ShardEnder on Sept 8, 2020 21:33:28 GMT
Between the Dixie quotation and that comment in the original Face The Music album credits about the band members growing a third eyebrow on this song (because making fun of a visible marker associated with inbreeding is apparently funny?), Down Home Town reveals that Jeff's sense of humour isn't always compatible with more progressive ways of thinking. I could go further by mentioning the original working titles for Starlight or Give Me Fever in particular, never mind that Jeff's first wife supposedly found his jokes overly puerile, but I firmly believe it's possible to successfully separate the art from the artist. In this case, I'd rather continue looking up to Jeff and brush off this misfire as a product of its time. More recently, he's created a climate for himself where he doesn't answer questions unless they're from a very short "menu" of topics we've all heard before, so it's not as if he'll ever be called out for this. Much like vintage cartoons now being made available with disclaimers warning viewers about problematic content, I just wish a clear line would be drawn under this chapter in ELO history.
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Post by fireonhigh on Sept 15, 2020 10:59:52 GMT
'I could go further by mentioning the original working titles for Starlight or Give Me Fever'
I don't mean to hijack the thread but I've never heard about a song called 'give me fever'. Is there any more info on it? What song did it become or has it remained a demo? Is it available anywhere to listen to?
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BLM
Sept 15, 2020 19:42:11 GMT
Post by ShardEnder on Sept 15, 2020 19:42:11 GMT
Give Me Fever (or, to use its original working title, Black As A N****r's A**e) is one of four tracks from the so-called Trojan Tapes Session that remains officially unreleased, though it surfaced on YouTube a few years ago along with Open Your Eyes, Like A Rat Up A Drain (AKA Oh So Lonely) and Supersonic.
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BLM
Sept 15, 2020 23:05:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by fireonhigh on Sept 15, 2020 23:05:25 GMT
Give Me Fever (or, to use its original working title, Black As A N****r's A**e) is one of four tracks from the so-called Trojan Tapes Session that remains officially unreleased, though it surfaced on YouTube a few years ago along with Open Your Eyes, Like A Rat Up A Drain (AKA Oh So Lonely) and Supersonic. Ar yes I vaguely remember this now. They were released under a 'fake' name weren't they?
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