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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 0:51:07 GMT
I think the biggest problem with BOP is that it followed Time and (the butchered) Secret Messages.
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Post by queenofthehours on Apr 27, 2020 19:51:38 GMT
I can't say BOP is my very favourite ELO album but some of the time I feel I like it more than SM and a lot of the time I enjoy it more than Time. Not because I think it's better than Time. Time is a masterpiece and that's the problem, I'm too much in awe of Jeff's art when I listen to it but with BOP I can just enjoy the songs for the sake of fun.
'Heaven Only Knows' is a fantastic opener and I often randomly listen too it at top volume when the need arises (which is often). 'So Serious' too. 'Getting to the Point' is perfect in every way. The rest of the album I'm not so sure about but the opening trio of songs more than make up for anything that may be lacking in the other songs.
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Post by tremblinwilbury on Apr 28, 2020 12:02:10 GMT
I think I might've mentioned before that I see BOP as a concept album - about the breakdown in a relationship. The subject - Jeff - slowly begins to realise that his relationship isn't there anymore. Maybe it's a parallel with how things were going with the other band members.
BOP is high on my list of favourite ELO albums.
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Post by nobodyschild on Apr 29, 2020 17:42:16 GMT
It always surprises me how much I really like BOP. It doesn’t have that ELO sound to it, and it’s never the first album I think of or anything like that, but every time I put it on I find myself going “oh, that’s a good song... oh, I forgot how cool this one is... oh, I love this song...” etc, for the entire album. Now Grroosss and I don’t have to share anymore, I’ve since hunted down my own copy.
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Post by earlgreyjunior on Apr 30, 2020 20:42:12 GMT
I found it odd at the time, and still do, that a perfectionist like Jeff would be ok with the really strange timing issue on the keyboard part at the end of Heaven Only Knows. Still a great song, but that part is very strange (probably an edit issue)
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Post by ShardEnder on Apr 30, 2020 22:50:26 GMT
I found it odd at the time, and still do, that a perfectionist like Jeff would be ok with the really strange timing issue on the keyboard part at the end of Heaven Only Knows. Still a great song, but that part is very strange (probably an edit issue) That bit you mention isn't a problem created at the editing stage, but is rather one of the few instances of a keyboard overdub that could have done with another take. When buried deep in the background of an older ELO track, Jeff might have been able to let this one slip. However, because of the more sterile instrumentation and production on Balance Of Power as a whole, it very much stands out. Details like this helped perpetuate the myth that Jeff stopped caring about his work, though the 2007 expanded remaster had enough bonus tracks (with plenty more still unheard!) to help suggest that it was likely just something he didn't notice.
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Post by hoyosenr on May 2, 2020 15:22:00 GMT
I found it odd at the time, and still do, that a perfectionist like Jeff would be ok with the really strange timing issue on the keyboard part at the end of Heaven Only Knows. Still a great song, but that part is very strange (probably an edit issue) That bit you mention isn't a problem created at the editing stage, but is rather one of the few instances of a keyboard overdub that could have done with another take. When buried deep in the background of an older ELO track, Jeff might have been able to let this one slip. However, because of the more sterile instrumentation and production on Balance Of Power as a whole, it very much stands out. Details like this helped perpetuate the myth that Jeff stopped caring about his work, though the 2007 expanded remaster had enough bonus tracks (with plenty more still unheard!) to help suggest that it was likely just something he didn't notice. Pardon me if I'm being a bit slow on the uptake (perhaps the quarantine.....) but after so many years being a great BOP fan, and after listening today several times to the end of Heaven Only Knows, I can't tell what is the keyboard issue you mention. Any help?
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Post by earlgreyjunior on May 2, 2020 18:06:14 GMT
That bit you mention isn't a problem created at the editing stage, but is rather one of the few instances of a keyboard overdub that could have done with another take. When buried deep in the background of an older ELO track, Jeff might have been able to let this one slip. However, because of the more sterile instrumentation and production on Balance Of Power as a whole, it very much stands out. Details like this helped perpetuate the myth that Jeff stopped caring about his work, though the 2007 expanded remaster had enough bonus tracks (with plenty more still unheard!) to help suggest that it was likely just something he didn't notice. Pardon me if I'm being a bit slow on the uptake (perhaps the quarantine.....) but after so many years being a great BOP fan, and after listening today several times to the end of Heaven Only Knows, I can't tell what is the keyboard issue you mention. Any help? It's the ascending bell-like keyboard starting at 2:42 over the top of some counterpoint orchestral stabs. At 2:43 something is badly out of time. To me is sounds like the chiming sound is hesitant. Equally it could be that a more 'live' drum track was replaced by the machine part that we hear on the final version.
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Post by Timeblue on May 3, 2020 8:53:01 GMT
I honestly can't tell that anything is wrong, maybe my tablet doesn't pick up the finer points of the ending. I'm getting a new laptop next week with decent spec so I'll check it out again.
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Post by dankwai on May 3, 2020 9:31:30 GMT
I honestly can't tell that anything is wrong, maybe my tablet doesn't pick up the finer points of the ending. I'm getting a new laptop next week with decent spec so I'll check it out again.
I thought people who talked about this were referring to the seemingly bad note in the "ascending bell-like keyboard starting at 2:42" which happens around 2:43 (on the youtube video).
Not sure about the timing issues though.
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Post by hoyosenr on May 3, 2020 10:13:00 GMT
Pardon me if I'm being a bit slow on the uptake (perhaps the quarantine.....) but after so many years being a great BOP fan, and after listening today several times to the end of Heaven Only Knows, I can't tell what is the keyboard issue you mention. Any help? It's the ascending bell-like keyboard starting at 2:42 over the top of some counterpoint orchestral stabs. At 2:43 something is badly out of time. To me is sounds like the chiming sound is hesitant. Equally it could be that a more 'live' drum track was replaced by the machine part that we hear on the final version. Ok! Thanks! I must admit that, even knowing it's there, it keeps being quite subtle to my ears. But decreasing the track speed (I did it even to 50%), it is more evident that something happens there. I sort of perceive it rather as a collision due to a drum track fault/edit/something than as a tempo mistake by the keyboard. On the other hand, I’d like to take the chance to state that I don't completely agree with the usual impressions about BOP being a lesser effort in terms of production, instrumentation, etc. Certainly, when I first heard the album (back in 1987) I thought it was somewhat simplistic, spartan, even a bit careless... After all these years, I think that this initial feeling was rather due to the following factors than to the real effort put by the band (say Jeff) into the final product: • The inevitable comparison with previous "orchestral" jobs • The lack of incidental music/effects in between tracks • The drum machine overdose, even if this had begun some albums ago. Nowadays, my opinion about the mentioned impressions has turned to this: I think they are due to the fact that BOP songwriting has, for the first time in years, a very straightforward approach, in terms of the harmony involved, compared to what had been usual since then. I mean: • It is rare to find BOP songs where the harmonies make use of 7ths, major 7ths, sixths, suspended 4ths or 9ths, augmented or diminished chords, etc. • Moreover, chord progressions don’t seem extremely surprising in most of the songs. • In exchange, many of the former albums contained several songs which were true festivals of the mentioned songwriting details, even in tracks as “poppy” as “Last Train to London” or “The Diary of Horace Wimp”. On the other hand, listening attentively to most of BOP songs, I find that there are a lot of arrangement/production details on the rhythm track, constantly entering and leaving the song, colouring the harmony, dancing around the stereo panorama, etc. Even the so often harshly treated “Send it” is a good example of that. So, maybe the approach is different (no orchestra, drum machines, lots of synths) but the care and effort is still there. Well don’t take me too seriously, with the years BOP grew on me and I must confess that only “Time” is topping it on my ELO podium!
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Post by lasttrain929 on May 3, 2020 13:01:33 GMT
I have read with interest all of these thoughts and opinions on BOP. Firstly I have never noticed anything out of place at the ending of Heaven only knows, so played it a few times on the original format and there is a slightly muffled sound and slight almost out of sync on the ascending chimes. But honestly I barely notice it and it doesn’t detract anything on the album for me. It is obvious it is an album that is always going to divide opinion. On its release in 1986 I was over the moon as after Secret Messages all was quiet on the ELO front, so I was just glad to hear they were still making music. Even on that alone I will always have a soft spot for the album.
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Post by Timeblue on May 3, 2020 13:19:09 GMT
I have read with interest all of these thoughts and opinions on BOP. Firstly I have never noticed anything out of place at the ending of Heaven only knows, so played it a few times on the original format and there is a slightly muffled sound and slight almost out of sync on the ascending chimes. But honestly I barely notice it and it doesn’t detract anything on the album for me. It is obvious it is an album that is always going to divide opinion. On its release in 1986 I was over the moon as after Secret Messages all was quiet on the ELO front, so I was just glad to hear they were still making music. Even on that alone I will always have a soft spot for the album. I too have a soft spot for it as it was my very first cd cd album back in 86. Back to HOK,I can tell that the ascending chimes does have an 'out of place' chime but the timing issue is lost on me!
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Post by lasttrain929 on May 3, 2020 16:06:26 GMT
I have read with interest all of these thoughts and opinions on BOP. Firstly I have never noticed anything out of place at the ending of Heaven only knows, so played it a few times on the original format and there is a slightly muffled sound and slight almost out of sync on the ascending chimes. But honestly I barely notice it and it doesn’t detract anything on the album for me. It is obvious it is an album that is always going to divide opinion. On its release in 1986 I was over the moon as after Secret Messages all was quiet on the ELO front, so I was just glad to hear they were still making music. Even on that alone I will always have a soft spot for the album. I too have a soft spot for it as it was my very first cd cd album back in 86. Back to HOK,I can tell that the ascending chimes does have an 'out of place' chime but the timing issue is lost on me! Yes me too, but some people to be fair, have a much better ear for these things than me,I know there are some talented musicians on this forum, judging by the music they write and post.
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Post by eloandy on May 29, 2020 20:50:58 GMT
I've always loved BOP. As much as anything, i'd read in the music press a couple of years prior to BOP being released that ELO had split up. So when it was released in 1986 it was a massive 'Brucie Bonus' for yours truly cos it caught me totally unawares. The only disappointing track IMHO was 'Send It'. It was ok but a bit weak i thought. Always loved 'Heaven Only Knows', 'Is It Alright' and 'Secret Lives'. it's funny, i missed the strings when they were gone, but i got the feeling Jeff had really found his feet in this new, no strings attached world. For me, BOP and ZOOM are two of ELO's most under rated albums.
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