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Post by BIuebird on Feb 10, 2020 1:06:32 GMT
This tweet has been making its rounds on the internet recently, and it really threw me for a loop: This blurb explains both types of thought a bit better, but this is basically the gist of it: Some people have verbalized thoughts, where they can hear their voice (or just a voice) in their head without having to speak aloud. Other people do not/can not do this and instead think in more abstract concepts and visualizations. I definitely have an internal monologue/dialogue. It never shuts up, and I often have trouble sleeping at night because my mind keeps running verbalized scenarios. I can hold an entire conversation with myself inside my head without physically speaking. I can also imagine entire conversations between myself and another person (and hear their voice), or between other people. I was really surprised to find out that not everyone does this or can do this. To be clear, I do not think exclusively in verbal thoughts. I think in images or "video clips" when I am remembering something that happened to me, or when I am conceptualizing a new art project. I will typically see the finished product I want in my head and then try to replicate it through artistic mediums. When I read to myself, I both hear the words I am reading in my head, and I also visualize what is being described in the text. However, I would say that my primary form of thought is verbal. I was fascinated to learn that not everyone thinks like this, because I had assumed that it was as normal for everyone else as it was for me. So, I started asking everyone I know whether or not they have an internal monologue. To my surprise, I found out that I have at least four friends/family members who do not have an internal monologue. One of them is my dad. He thought I was nuts when I told him about being able to hold entire conversations in my head: "How can you hear your own voice in your head?! I don't understand, that's crazy." He told me that if he talks to himself, he has to physically do it aloud. When I explained that those echo-y voice-over thoughts used in films were what my thoughts were like, he was baffled. He didn't think that was something other people actually experienced. He thought it was just a device used to better show a characters' thought patterns. I asked him what he sees/hears in his head when he reads, and he couldn't explain it. He also couldn't explain how he would think of what to say before actually verbalizing it, which totally blew my mind. Another friend told me that she doesn't have an internal monologue either, and that she just pictures what is happening when she reads. However, no one I have found so far with this type of thought pattern has been able to tell me how they think of what to say before it comes out of their mouth. I am not sure if they picture the words as if written on paper? Or if they just have a vague concept of what they want to say, and have to verbalize it spontaneously? That sounds even more terrifying than the countless verbal scenarios that pop into my mind when I am thinking of what to say to someone, and I already have terrible social anxiety! Naturally, I am now curious about my fellow forum members' thought patterns. Do you have an internal monologue/dialogue? If so, what is your experience with it? Is it similar to mine, or completely different? If you do not, can you explain your thought patterns? What do you see/hear when you read? How do you think of what to say before actually saying it? Are you constantly getting visual thought flashes like I have constant verbal thoughts? Or are you more focused on just the present moment and what you are currently doing, and not constantly thinking of other things? My mind is almost always running with thoughts other than what I am currently doing (example: what should I make for dinner later? what's the meaning behind that song I heard on the radio? what's going to happen next in that book I'm reading? etc) I am intrigued!
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Post by orioles70 on Feb 10, 2020 1:55:23 GMT
I wonder if those 2 styles of thinking come from different parts of the brain. I have a running monologue in my head if I'm trying to decide what to write, how to formulate an argument, how to figure out some conceptual problem. But if I'm playing sports then my thoughts are visual. Different part of the brain to use for different things.
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Post by eloneen on Feb 10, 2020 2:28:59 GMT
BIuebird I'm a lot like you in some ways. I am far stronger verbally than visually. I need words to remember directions to new places; for example the words "turn left on Elm St., go 3/4 mile and then turn right on Main St., etc.," which I typically would have to say out loud, will stick in my mind more than my visual recollection of the journey, because my visual memory is not nearly as reliable as my verbal memory. The human mind is so interesting!
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 10, 2020 3:50:28 GMT
The ways of my brain are verbal too, definitely. Heck, under some circumstances -when I get angry or very surprised- I even speak to myself out loudly. You are right, I assumed everytone thought internally like this and I wasn't even aware of the more abstract way of thinking.
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Post by unomusette on Feb 10, 2020 21:18:13 GMT
I'd agree with orioles70 that the brain has different ways of dealing with different types of situation. But individuals might be inclined mostly one way or the other. Personally I'd say I'm mostly a verbal person and I hear those verbal thoughts in my own voice, when for example planning what I'm going to do during a day. If I'm reading though it produces pictures in my mind rather than a voice speaking the words I'm seeing. If I'm having a conversation I know what I'm going to say before I say it but I don't think I hear it in my head first - it's hard to pin down exactly what happens as it's so instinctive. Great idea for a discussion though BIuebird, be interesting to hear everyone else's point of view
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Post by BIuebird on Feb 11, 2020 1:25:21 GMT
orioles70 unomusette That's most likely true that we engage different parts of the brain for different situations and therefore have different forms of thought according to those situations, I agree! What completely baffles me is that these 4 people in particular have told me that they have no verbal thoughts at all, which I find really fascinating and difficult to wrap my mind around. I am curious whether or not it has anything to do with our cognitive functions: which ones we prefer to use and the order in which we use them. Our Myers-Briggs Type Indicator, or our MBTI personality letters, reveal our preferred cognitive functions and the order in which we use them. I noticed that my dad and one of my friends, two of the people who have told me that they do not experience verbal thoughts, are both INTJ personality types. The cognitive functions INTJs use in order are Introverted iNtuition(Ni)> Extroverted Thinking(Te)> Introverted Feeling(Fi)> Extroverted Sensing(Se). In contrast, all of the other xNFP types I have spoken to (other INFPs and ENFPs) have a very active internal monologue, and both types use the same cognitive functions, but use them in a different order of preference. INFPs use: Introverted Feeling(Fi)> Extroverted iNtuition(Ne)> Introverted Sensing(Si)> Extroverted Thinking(Te), while ENFPs use Ne>Fi>Te>Si in order of preference. This could be a total coincidence and there may be no actual correlation, but the pattern of overlap with a number of people whose types I know got me thinking! eloneen That is really interesting! For me, having verbal directions does help, but that's one of the cases in which I really need visuals as well. Visuals tend to stick with me more in those scenarios.
I do that sometimes, myself. If I am alone, I will occasionally answer my inner thoughts out loud, as well!
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 11, 2020 4:10:25 GMT
I do that sometimes, myself. Nice to know that we are not alone (except when we talk )! Do you make questions and provide yourself the answer? Haha, that's funny. I couldn't assure I never did that myself, I tend to think I don't but I might as well have. After all, I don't particularly register what I say out loud or what I don't. What does your boyfriend say about this peculiar feature of yours? Did he ever catch you in the middle a particularly heated-up discussion with yourself? My father is probably the worst case of talking to himself by a -say- sane person that I've known in my life. It isn't so much what he says (he says it in a low volume) but the fact that he gesticulates a lot, and he does it while walking in the streets and he doesn't give a damn about what people might think. One day a friend of my aunt told my aunt that she had seen her brother (my father) in the street and next she asked her "is he alright?".
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Post by Grroosss on Feb 11, 2020 8:41:07 GMT
Very fascinating, I certainly can't imagine not having an internal monologue and had no idea that some people don't. Whether I'm thinking or reading, the words might as well have been spoken aloud when I hear them in my head (though like BIuebird, I do have images accompany the monologue when I'm reading, and ideas for art projects are images; memories are a combination of images, feelings/emotions, and verbal thoughts). I can have conversations with myself, or with someone else if I know their voice well enough. I can read or think in someone else's voice if I know it well enough, too, though it usually takes a conscious effort to do so--only in certain situations is it completely instinctive. Some examples: If I'm reading a book, even though I know the character has a British accent, I'll read in my own voice unless I force myself to do otherwise. If I'm reading/thinking a movie quote, I'll typically hear it in the actor's voice. Reading a Jeff interview? Jeff's voice, always. And if someone has a certain word/phrase they say a lot, or a particular way of saying it, it'll be in their voice when it comes up in my own train of thought. While my internal monologue does remind me of things that I'm supposed to do later, think random thoughts unrelated to what I'm currently doing, etc, I'd say it's about the present the other half of the time--I'll think of things that are related to what someone is talking about, and sometimes I become too conscious of the fact that I'm thinking and it's like I'm narrating/commentating on what I'm doing at the moment. As far as internally verbalizing what I'm going to say before I say it... in a situation where there's pressure involved, I do, but in the ordinary conversations that I have with people, I don't, at least I don't think. Maybe I do very briefly, since I know where my sentence is going as I say it, but it feels like just a spontaneous reaction to what has just been said. From nobodyschild I know there's a theatre improv exercise where you try to avoid thinking about what you're going to say before saying it, so that you're listening attentively to what the other person is saying and responding to them in a way that makes sense rather than picking up on ideas that ultimately may not be important in the context of their finished sentence--I guess that's the best way I can describe it. Now, the thing that all this has really got me thinking about is our musical thoughts--when I have a song stuck in my head, I can hear it exactly the way it sounds when played out loud, chords, harmonies, full orchestrations, in the singer's voice if there's lyrics, etc, all manner of sounds that my vocal cords can't actually physically produce, let alone all at once. Is this how everyone else hears songs in their head? Do the people who have non-verbal thoughts get songs stuck in their head, and if so, what is it like for them?
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Post by queenofthehours on Feb 18, 2020 19:01:53 GMT
I thought everybody had an internal monologue? I know I do. I have whole conversations in my head. It's this voice that makes it hours before I can sleep at night sometimes! If I know I'm going to have a conversation I can think out what I'm going to say even though the actual words never turn out to be the planned words.
It's only been these last few years when I've started talking to myself and that worries me in case I go crazy . This idea of an internal monologue reminds me of when I was in primary school and we had afternoon reading hour and the teacher had to keep telling half the class that it was SILENT reading. I could never understand why anyone ever needed to read aloud to themselves. I only do this when I find a text that is a bit difficult to understand because it is so badly written.
Helmut83 , your dad sounds exactly like my dad.
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Post by BIuebird on Feb 25, 2020 1:22:15 GMT
Helmut83 I hate to admit it, but yes, I do sometimes make myself questions and answer them. Actually, Mr. Bluebird talks to himself when I am around more than I talk to myself when he is around! (in case you were wondering, he has an internal monologue as well) He did catch me in mid conversation with myself once when I thought he wasn't around, though, so that was a bit embarrassing. "Who were you talking to?" "Um, myself." Your dad sounds like Mr. Bluebird! He does a lot of gesticulating as well, including when he is just doing the internal monologue, and nothing is actually coming out of his mouth. Grroosss It sounds like our experiences with internal monologue are pretty similar. I will also usually read interviews in the person's voice, as long as I know their voice well enough, like Jeff's. To answer your music question, I typically hear music in my head the same way it sounds when it is played aloud, as long as I know it well. If I have only heard a song once or twice, there might be bits that stick out more than others, like the singer's voice/lyrics or a particular instrument, and a small part of the song may loop instead of the whole thing. Can you hear a song once and then be able to replay it in your head right away? I am not a musician myself, so I wonder if that makes a difference in the attention we pay to all the details of a song immediately? There are songs I have known for years that I still find new, interesting bits I never noticed before, like what the bass is doing. I typically hear the song as a cohesive entity, and have to really focus and tunnel in if I want to listen to what a certain instrument does through the whole song. However, I almost always pay the most attention to the lyrics and the melody of the song. Since my dad doesn't have an internal monologue, I will have to ask him how he experiences this, and whether he hears the lyrics in his head! As a side note, "The Buildings Have Eyes" came on when I was driving to work today, and this line stood out to me: Silly silly are the thoughts that fill your head "Wish I'd never set out, wish I'd stayed in bed" Can we assume from this line that Jeff also has an internal monologue? queenofthehours I thought so too, until I read about this and started asking people! That sounds a lot like how my internal monologue works... especially the part about the voice keeping you awake at night. Sometimes I think it would be nice to shut it off, in those instances. Maybe this explains how my dad has always been able to fall asleep so easily, anywhere? No nagging inner voice! The way I see it, if you know that you are talking to yourself (even when you are thinking about what another person would say in response), you are not crazy. If you are talking to yourself, but you actually think you are talking to someone else, well... then you might be crazy.
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Post by BSJ on Feb 25, 2020 18:45:19 GMT
Dave talks out loud to himself. First person I knew to do this. Being afraid he'd become self conscious and stop, I've never commented on it. I love listening to him. He does it when working out a problem. I've an inner voice that doesn't shut-up keeping me awake. Seems Dave doesn't have one, he falls asleep almost as soon as his head hits the pillow.
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Post by Grroosss on Feb 26, 2020 7:35:21 GMT
BIuebirdNo, it usually takes me a good few times of hearing a song before I can mentally replay it the way it sounds out loud for me too, otherwise I'll hear in my head just whichever melody/instruments stick out to me when listening (though I find that the parts that stick out to me aren't necessarily always what would be considered the lead melody of the song). Even with songs I do know pretty well, if there's a part I've never noticed, it won't be there in my head. I can mentally play a song all the way through if I know it well enough, but whenever I get a song stuck in my head it pretty much means that just a segment of it will be on loop, even if I know the song like the back of my hand. Particularly when we've focused on a particular section of a piece in band/orchestra in rehearsal, I'll usually have that bit stuck in my head for the rest of the day, typically only my part and the cues I listen for from other instruments, to the point of driving me crazy.
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Post by Buttler on Feb 26, 2020 13:44:21 GMT
I started some years ago.
I was completely stressed out (work-family issues).
It's probably getting worse now (You could notice an imperceptible moving of my lips and mouth during an internal monologue).
It's really embarrassing, especially if it happens while I'm working or walking outside (just a few examples).
People might think I'm crazy (Maybe I am - just kidding - ), I don't want to look like a ventriloquist's dummy anyway.
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Post by BSJ on Feb 26, 2020 19:20:38 GMT
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Post by Helmut83 on Feb 28, 2020 2:19:50 GMT
Hahaha... Buttler, That's a good idea actually. Carry a dummy around with you just in case someone catches you monologueing, you can always say you were practicing for the show.
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