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Post by Helmut83 on Mar 3, 2020 3:23:24 GMT
Speaking of which, I've always thought that VH1's Behind the Music should do an episode about Electric Light Orchestra without Jeff Lynne's participation if necessary, though I doubt it! PS-They did one on Chicago with no input from Peter Cetera. Why not think, in the first place, about doing an episode about ELO with Jeff Lynne's participation? It's not like he has to reunite with his old mates to be recorded narrating a few memories, opinions and anecdotes.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 3, 2020 6:28:22 GMT
Having read Sharon Osborne's autobiography she backs this up and she ought to know. So did Kelly and Chris Groucutt. Sorry, trekkielo. I'm having trouble understanding your post. "So did Kelly and Chris Groucutt" ... what?
Did they back up that Don Arden stole millions? Where did you see this? If I've correctly understood your meaning.
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Post by trekkielo on Mar 3, 2020 17:57:01 GMT
So did Kelly and Chris Groucutt. Sorry, trekkielo . I'm having trouble understanding your post. "So did Kelly and Chris Groucutt" ... what?
Did they back up that Don Arden stole millions? Where did you see this? If I've correctly understood your meaning. Of course they did back it up. Why are you being coy StrangeMagic ? Have you forgotten? Didn't you actually read the following where you'd posted a reply? IF so, then you already should know exactly where this is from, first post, fifth paragraph here... jefflynneselo.proboards.com/thread/1766/chris-groucutt-words-facebook-chatDo try and keep up, 007!
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Post by trekkielo on Mar 3, 2020 18:00:26 GMT
Speaking of which, I've always thought that VH1's Behind the Music should do an episode about Electric Light Orchestra without Jeff Lynne's participation if necessary, though I doubt it! PS-They did one on Chicago with no input from Peter Cetera. Why not think, in the first place, about doing an episode about ELO with Jeff Lynne's participation? It's not like he has to reunite with his old mates to be recorded narrating a few memories, opinions and anecdotes. Yeah, that would work too, that's why I'd said "IF necessary, though I doubt it"!
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Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 4, 2020 3:30:48 GMT
Sorry, trekkielo . I'm having trouble understanding your post. "So did Kelly and Chris Groucutt" ... what?
Did they back up that Don Arden stole millions? Where did you see this? If I've correctly understood your meaning. Of course they did back it up. Why are you being coy StrangeMagic ? Have you forgotten? Didn't you actually read the following where you'd posted a reply? IF so, then you already should know exactly where this is from, first post, fifth paragraph here... jefflynneselo.proboards.com/thread/1766/chris-groucutt-words-facebook-chatDo try and keep up, 007! Thank you for reminding me.
That was two-and-a-half years ago. I'm not as young as I used to be. One day, you too will begin to experience the phenomenon of not being able to remember the time and date stamp of everything that happens, and people younger than you will begin to take advantage of you and publicly humiliate you, too.
You think it won't happen to you, but it will.
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Post by trekkielo on Mar 4, 2020 11:44:02 GMT
Thank you for reminding me.
That was two-and-a-half years ago. I'm not as young as I used to be. One day, you too will begin to experience the phenomenon of not being able to remember the time and date stamp of everything that happens, and people younger than you will begin to take advantage of you and publicly humiliate you, too.
You think it won't happen to you, but it will.
Look, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention, so please forgive me. But you have me at a disadvantage when it comes to our personal information, such is the way of internet anonymity. Then you go and wish something upon me that I'd never wish on my worst enemy.
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Post by lasttrain929 on Mar 4, 2020 12:54:52 GMT
Think I’ll go put “ Mr Blue Sky” on’ It always puts a smile on my face. It’s a sunny day here in theUK. Have a great day everyone.
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Post by Timeblue on Mar 4, 2020 14:35:16 GMT
Think I’ll go put “ Mr Blue Sky” on’ It always puts a smile on my face. It’s a sunny day here in theUK. Have a great day everyone. I suppose it makes a change from 'Rain Is Falling'.....
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Post by StrangeMagic on Mar 5, 2020 2:11:25 GMT
Thank you for reminding me.
That was two-and-a-half years ago. I'm not as young as I used to be. One day, you too will begin to experience the phenomenon of not being able to remember the time and date stamp of everything that happens, and people younger than you will begin to take advantage of you and publicly humiliate you, too.
You think it won't happen to you, but it will.
Look, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention, so please forgive me. But you have me at a disadvantage when it comes to our personal information, such is the way of internet anonymity. Then you go and wish something upon me that I'd never wish on my worst enemy. Then don't make fun of people for not remembering things. Be helpful. Remind them of what they have forgotten. Say "I was referring to this post from one-and-a-half years ago (correction) where Chris Groucutt commented that his dad also believed Don Arden ripped off Jeff. Oh, look, you commented on it too, but it was ages ago, so it must have slipped your mind."
It really is possible to be considerate and polite on the internet. As far as your worst enemy, you can go ahead and wish it on him or her because losing the ability to recall easily happens to 95% of humans. I warned you because you don't want to make fun of people for things that you will be dealing with in less than twenty years. It's like being eighteen and making fun of overweight people. In today's society, there's a 60% chance that's going to happen to the bully.
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Post by trekkielo on Mar 5, 2020 3:37:34 GMT
Look, I'm sorry if I offended you, that was not my intention, so please forgive me. But you have me at a disadvantage when it comes to our personal information, such is the way of internet anonymity. Then you go and wish something upon me that I'd never wish on my worst enemy. Then don't make fun of people for not remembering things. Be helpful. Remind them of what they have forgotten. Say "I was referring to this post from one-and-a-half years ago (correction) where Chris Groucutt commented that his dad also believed Don Arden ripped off Jeff. Oh, look, you commented on it too, but it was ages ago, so it must have slipped your mind."
It really is possible to be considerate and polite on the internet. As far as your worst enemy, you can go ahead and wish it on him or her because losing the ability to recall easily happens to 95% of humans. I warned you because you don't want to make fun of people for things that you will be dealing with in less than twenty years. It's like being eighteen and making fun of overweight people. In today's society, there's a 60% chance that's going to happen to the bully. Thank you, your assistance is appreciated, like I'd said, I'm sorry it came off that way, this wasn't my intention, that's why I added "Do try and keep up 007" with a cool emoticon, sometimes online words can be wrongly stated losing its original intent or misinterpreted, both under certain circumstances. Don Arden ripped off Jeff along with the entire Electric Light Orchestra band who then got stiffed by Lynne. I'll still never wish anything on enemies either him/her. I've been bullied over many years for various reasons since 1980 including weight and cyberbullied.
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Post by janne on Mar 13, 2020 7:30:44 GMT
I'm late to this debate, and have some thoughts no one has raised.
Jeff spoke to the Swedish reporter in English. The Swedish reporter translated the interview into Swedish. Janne translated the interview back to English for us. I want to know what Jeff originally said in English before I make any sweeping judgements about his character based on a few words.
I've done some research into the Bev/Jeff rift over the years. Much of what I found was single-source, but the tale hung together pretty well. It seems Bev solemnly promised Jeff about some things he would and wouldn't do when he organized ELO Part II. It looks like Bev broke his word on almost every promise he made. I'm not sharing any details because as I said, the information I found was single-source, but pieces of it were from several sources, and the pieces formed a coherent whole. When a friend whom you worked with closely, whom you trusted, betrays you, I can see how it would be hard to forgive him. The same thing happened to me and the professional consequences to me were pretty dire. I haven't forgiven her. She'd have to crawl on her hands and knees for me to relent. And I'd never trust her again.
Unlike many of you, ELO was never a group of equal members for me. I was an adult when they became popular in the US in the early-to-mid-seventies. It was pretty obvious who the driving force was--Jeff Lynne, songwriter, producer, arranger, lead guitarist, lead singer. Yeah, I figured those other guys were there to play the instruments Jeff wasn't so good at. And he couldn't play everything at the same time onstage. I didn't follow Part II as they played the smaller halls and released the not-as-good albums. They weren't ELO to me without the front man. I was never as disappointed as some of you that Richard was the only one who joined Jeff's comeback, although that he was there pleased me immeasurably. So sad his illness kept him from remaining in the band.
So I don't judge Jeff so harshly for not reconciling with Bev. Imagine how you would feel if a good friend and colleague betrayed you. Anyway, I doubt he said those words exactly. It's not his current style, to say "Bev stole my group," is it? He may have said something softer that the interviewer translated liberally. It's also interesting the interview hasn't blown up anywhere I've seen, or did I just miss it?
Thank you for questioning the reporter's ability to translate English into Swedish and my ability to translate Swedish into English. No, I know what you mean and - of course - things could get lost in translation sometimes. That is absolutely the case, and it happens a lot, I think. But this? Very straightforward stuff. This reporter is highly experienced from decades of interviews with big rock stars, more often than not in English. Personally, I am not native in English, but again - this is simple stuff. Sorry, Jeff said what he said. As to why the interview hasn't "blown up anywhere"? ELO is really not that big a name anymore, more of a legacy act for people like you and me, who remember the 70's... And a tiff between the singer and the drummer about intricate stuff, such as who has the right a band name? It's not exactly tabloid material.
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Post by Timeblue on Mar 13, 2020 8:59:06 GMT
I'm late to this debate, and have some thoughts no one has raised.
Jeff spoke to the Swedish reporter in English. The Swedish reporter translated the interview into Swedish. Janne translated the interview back to English for us. I want to know what Jeff originally said in English before I make any sweeping judgements about his character based on a few words.
I've done some research into the Bev/Jeff rift over the years. Much of what I found was single-source, but the tale hung together pretty well. It seems Bev solemnly promised Jeff about some things he would and wouldn't do when he organized ELO Part II. It looks like Bev broke his word on almost every promise he made. I'm not sharing any details because as I said, the information I found was single-source, but pieces of it were from several sources, and the pieces formed a coherent whole. When a friend whom you worked with closely, whom you trusted, betrays you, I can see how it would be hard to forgive him. The same thing happened to me and the professional consequences to me were pretty dire. I haven't forgiven her. She'd have to crawl on her hands and knees for me to relent. And I'd never trust her again.
Unlike many of you, ELO was never a group of equal members for me. I was an adult when they became popular in the US in the early-to-mid-seventies. It was pretty obvious who the driving force was--Jeff Lynne, songwriter, producer, arranger, lead guitarist, lead singer. Yeah, I figured those other guys were there to play the instruments Jeff wasn't so good at. And he couldn't play everything at the same time onstage. I didn't follow Part II as they played the smaller halls and released the not-as-good albums. They weren't ELO to me without the front man. I was never as disappointed as some of you that Richard was the only one who joined Jeff's comeback, although that he was there pleased me immeasurably. So sad his illness kept him from remaining in the band.
So I don't judge Jeff so harshly for not reconciling with Bev. Imagine how you would feel if a good friend and colleague betrayed you. Anyway, I doubt he said those words exactly. It's not his current style, to say "Bev stole my group," is it? He may have said something softer that the interviewer translated liberally. It's also interesting the interview hasn't blown up anywhere I've seen, or did I just miss it?
Thank you for questioning the reporter's ability to translate English into Swedish and my ability to translate Swedish into English. No, I know what you mean and - of course - things could get lost in translation sometimes. That is absolutely the case, and it happens a lot, I think. But this? Very straightforward stuff. This reporter is highly experienced from decades of interviews with big rock stars, more often than not in English. Personally, I am not native in English, but again - this is simple stuff. Sorry, Jeff said what he said. As to why the interview hasn't "blown up anywhere"? ELO is really not that big a name anymore, more of a legacy act for people like you and me, who remember the 70's... And tiff between the singer and the drummer about intricate stuff, such as who has the right a band name? It's not exactly tabloid material. Not tabloid material? This should have been headline news on every TV network!!!!! haha
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Post by Timeblue on Mar 13, 2020 9:03:47 GMT
Also Janne, your English is exemplary and I only wish I could speak a foreign language as good as what you do (and other non native posters on here)
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Post by ShardEnder on Mar 13, 2020 19:52:58 GMT
I've done some research into the Bev/Jeff rift over the years. Much of what I found was single-source, but the tale hung together pretty well. It seems Bev solemnly promised Jeff about some things he would and wouldn't do when he organized ELO Part II. It looks like Bev broke his word on almost every promise he made. I'm not sharing any details because as I said, the information I found was single-source, but pieces of it were from several sources, and the pieces formed a coherent whole. This is a problem I've been facing with my book - so much information about ELO is either from a single source, or only makes sense if put together with other details. In most cases, I found that it's possible to present multiple sides of any one story, but is it right to expect readers to form their own conclusions? When it comes to Part II, my understanding is that Bev and Jeff negotiated through their lawyers before this new band even played a single note together, including the condition that Kelly absolutely was not to be involved at any level. After settling out of court back in October 1983, it was agreed that Kelly wouldn't be able to continue profiting from his connection to ELO, yet it didn't take long for Part II to announce a UK tour with OrKestra advertised as its opening act. From what I've been told, Jeff hired private detectives to buy tickets for these shows and report back on certain observations, including whether Kelly in particular was exploiting this loophole. To ensure that royalty calculations were correct, these investigators were also told to document setlists. However, it's safe to say that their biggest finding concerned Mik, Hugh (for a while until his departure, at least) and Kelly especially turning up as more than just special guests. Kelly was reportedly taking on an increasing number of lead vocals, and precisely a decade after being legally excommunicated from ELO, he'd somehow managed to negotiate his way into being recognised as an official member of Part II just in time to contribute on this outfit's second album, Moment Of Truth. As for any other promises or stipulations that Bev went back on, it seems as if the late 1999 decision to sell his 50% stake in the ELO name to Jeff came as something of a surprise to everyone else, especially as they were all in the process of recording new material that would eventually surface as No Rewind under the new legally required moniker of The Orchestra. In the years before his tragic early passing, fans have claimed that Kelly finally began to open up about his side of what happened with not only Jeff, but Bev as well. Just a few years ago, Bev was quite vocal about being tired of playing ELO songs and even discussing this period in his life, though he's since teased a follow-up to his 1980 book, which I'm assuming will incorporate elements from his more recent journals rather than repeating what we already know. I've heard talk of there perhaps being a gagging order in place, but this action suggests he's now free of such a restriction. Of course, Bev didn't do himself any favours by then burning any remaining bridges between himself and Roy by sabotaging a potential reunion when he announced a separate Move reunion tour for that band's 50th anniversary with Trevor Burton as the only other familiar face participating. In short, there is definitely more than enough to piece together a cohesive whole, but it's been very difficult because of just how few sources there are. I've been lucky that a few fans and even insiders have been willing to share crucial parts of the puzzle, though it's also made things harder when they insist on maintaining their anonymity or proving unable to backup their points with solid evidence. While I'd rather not do this, I'm left with no choice except to present my findings in such a way that leaves each reader to make up their own minds based on what I'm able to print. ELO's actual music endures in a way deserving of all the talents involved, yet there's so much left behind the scenes that needs clearing up, and there are many reasons we're unlikely to hear any of this from the group itself.
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Post by Timeblue on Mar 13, 2020 20:11:52 GMT
Interesting as always Shard.
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