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Post by Southernman on Nov 15, 2014 9:24:50 GMT
Lot's of good comments above. The fact that BOP was done for contractual reasons is undisputed - after all, what album isn't? Whether it was done solely for contractual reasons also seems probable. If you ask the question: would Jeff have produced another ELO album at this point if his contract didn't require it, the answer is surely no. But, for me, the better questions to ask are whether in fulfilling his contract Jeff put as much time and effort into BOP, and - crucially - did he care as much about the result as he did with other ELO albums? The answers to both are unequivocally yes, as shown by the volume of material produced and the multiple reworkings of songs. Also, Jeff embarked on a level of promotion for the album not seen for many years - something that plainly did not come naturally to him. There was even a mini tour... All in all, it was evidently goodbye for ELO and, whether or not he had a contractual commitment, and whether or not you like the clinical sound he ended up with, Jeff still cared about what he was doing. This is further evidenced by the reissue and Jeff's relatively warm liner notes. The fact that lazy journalists slap the 'contractual commitment album' tag to BOP is uniformed but perhaps understandable. Fans ought to know better. IMO
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Post by Horacewimp on Nov 15, 2014 10:50:42 GMT
I have voted no and agree with Helmut, it depends if you know the background to the album when you first listened to it.
I got the album on the day of release and didn't know anything about it being the last album due to contracts etc, remember there was no internet to get this sort of information back then.
I played the album and liked it, it fitted in with songs of that period and seemed a logical progression at the time. This has stayed with me and I still like it now, even after I know the background to it, in fact that makes it some what more interesting to evaluate when I play it which is as often as other ELO albums.
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Post by PowWow on Nov 15, 2014 15:16:04 GMT
I'd much rather prefer Secret Messages getting the double-disc treatment so the band ends on a high-note than putting out this album which has an air of uncertainty and fatigue attached to it (if you get my drift).
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 15, 2014 16:19:33 GMT
You could sense a shift when Balance of Power came out. It's still a good album, but you get the feeling that Jeff was going through the motions. (Zoom, of course, is really a Jeff solo album, so that one doesn't even count as an ELO album.) Those are fighting words, mister. I'm actually somewhat conflicted and hesitant in seeing Lynne release another album under the ELO name for the simple reason that Zoom was a top tear Electric Light Orchestra album and would be hard to top.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 15, 2014 16:28:18 GMT
I have voted no and agree with Helmut, it depends if you know the background to the album when you first listened to it. I got the album on the day of release and didn't know anything about it being the last album due to contracts etc, remember there was no internet to get this sort of information back then. I played the album and liked it, it fitted in with songs of that period and seemed a logical progression at the time. This has stayed with me and I still like it now, even after I know the background to it, in fact that makes it some what more interesting to evaluate when I play it which is as often as other ELO albums. How does Helmut's post contradict the fact (or assertion) that BOP was an album that was made to fulfill a contract with Jet Records? I don't see how Jeff putting a lot of effort into the album would imply that it would have been made regardless of any obligations with the record company.
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Post by Horacewimp on Nov 15, 2014 17:35:14 GMT
I have voted no and agree with Helmut, it depends if you know the background to the album when you first listened to it. I got the album on the day of release and didn't know anything about it being the last album due to contracts etc, remember there was no internet to get this sort of information back then. I played the album and liked it, it fitted in with songs of that period and seemed a logical progression at the time. This has stayed with me and I still like it now, even after I know the background to it, in fact that makes it some what more interesting to evaluate when I play it which is as often as other ELO albums. How does Helmut's post contradict the fact (or assertion) that BOP was an album that was made to fulfill a contract with Jet Records? I don't see how Jeff putting a lot of effort into the album would imply that it would have been made regardless of any obligations with the record company. I was agreeing with Helmut's last sentence that many peoples judgement of the album are based on the reasons or rumours pertaining to its release.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 15, 2014 20:02:17 GMT
Fair enough. It appeared to me that Helmut was originally questioning PowWow's interpretation of the album's overall atmosphere, and not saying that it wasn't solely a contractual obligation. 'Maybe we're reading it differently.
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 16, 2014 2:20:19 GMT
Horace, if you agree with that last sentence, you agree with the general idea of the rest of the message, because that's what the last sentence sums up. And I'm glad that it is you who agrees, because you were around at the time and can give us a first-hand testimony of how you perceived the album in that moment without knowing all the backstage. That pretty much backs with a fact what I was guessing by intuition.
And, Rob, I don't know if to say I was questioning PowWow's interpretation because it could be taken as a direct challenge to what he said, and it was more of an observation about his comment. What I was trying to say is that PowWow's interpretation might be conditioned by knowing the context.
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Post by Horacewimp on Nov 16, 2014 9:27:51 GMT
Horace, if you agree with that last sentence, you agree with the general idea of the rest of the message, because that's what the last sentence sums up. And I'm glad that it is you who agrees, because you were around at the time and can give us a first-hand testimony of how you perceived the album in that moment without knowing all the backstage. That pretty much backs with a fact what I was guessing by intuition. And, Rob, I don't know if to say I was questioning PowWow's interpretation because it could be taken as a direct challenge to what he said, and it was more of an observation about his comment. What I was trying to say is that PowWow's interpretation might be conditioned by knowing the context. That's what I was trying to say in my post perhaps badly When I first got the album there were no preconceptions, it was great here is a new ELO album lets have a listen. Yes it was different, except for Calling America which I thought was classic ELO and was probably recorded earlier, as for the other songs after a few plays I liked them especially Getting to the Point which is still one of my favourite ever ELO tracks. As I've learnt more in the recent years the history behind the album it hasn't changed my enjoyment of it, I can't see how it would, in fact it has made me respect it even more. I definitely play the album more than ELO (No Answer), ELO2, Xanadu and Zoom.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 16, 2014 17:12:55 GMT
I can understand a person giving it more spins than the first two records and Xanadu, but more than Zoom?
Excuse me while I violently scrape my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon.
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 16, 2014 17:20:10 GMT
I can understand a person giving it more spins than the first two records and Xanadu, but more than Zoom? Excuse me while I violently scrape my eyeballs out with a rusty spoon. As long as it's your eyeballs, I'll excuse you. While I find "Zoom" superior and more ellaborate than BOP, I don't think the margin is so abyssal.
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Post by Rob 2095 on Nov 16, 2014 20:02:31 GMT
Really? It would be interesting to have another "Rank the Albums" type of thread. That hasn't been done in a while.
But then again, there are fans who haven't listened to all of them, and there are irredeemably evil fans who don't consider Zoom to be an ELO album...
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Post by Helmut83 on Nov 16, 2014 20:18:45 GMT
I second that motion!
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Post by BSJ on Nov 16, 2014 22:09:59 GMT
Really? It would be interesting to have another "Rank the Albums" type of thread. That hasn't been done in a while. But then again, there are fans who haven't listened to all of them, and there are irredeemably evil fans who don't consider Zoom to be an ELO album... Why would people think that Zoom is not an ELO album?
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Post by Timeblue on Nov 17, 2014 0:22:01 GMT
IMHO ...and it is my honest opinion, BOP is a bona fide ELO album (Jeff,Bev and Richard along with Louis Mik and Dave) Zoom on the other hand is not,this is just a glorified solo album with a little help from Richard.Like I said...my opinion....
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