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Post by bmac on Aug 29, 2018 19:24:42 GMT
I can't speak for anyone else but Richard was and is very much a part of MY ELO. He had more to do with the sound of ELO than Bev though Bev was a great drummer. I credit Roy for recognizing Jeff's talent and giving him the boost he needed early on but thats about it. As far as realizing how fans feel about him, how can he not know? To follow up on what Tightrope and queenofthehours said... Listening carefully and critically to the "Golden Years" of ELO - 1974 to 1979 - it becomes clear to me that Richard was a significant contributor to ELO's sound. I have come to believe that less informed fans give too much credit to Louis Clark for the orchestra, when he was more of a conductor and transcriber. I picture Jeff and Richard sitting at the keyboard, playing the string parts for Louis, who did little more than transcribe the notes for cellos, violin, and whatever instruments Jeff wanted to use. Certainly Louis was classically trained, which neither Jeff nor Richard were, but Richard had such an excellent ear for the keyboard, and Jeff for the overall concept of how he wanted things to sound, that 94% of the credit goes to those two, 2% to Bev, 2% to Clark, and 2% to the other musicians who performed on the albums, be they hired members of the string section or other members of ELO. I have no idea how to divide the credit up between Jeff and Richard, except I'm sure the lion's share goes to Jeff. Obviously Jeff wrote the songs. I'm talking about the "sound," the style of the songs, the orchestra riffs, the characteristic musicality that told us a tune was ELO. Go ahead, lambast me, demean me, tell me I'm wrong. None of us really knows because I don't think we were in the studio in those days. Let's discuss it. I will not lambast you as it is so difficult to determine how much the success of some things can be attributed to one person or another when you are dealing with a collaborative endeavor so your guess is as good as anyones. What I will say is that there is more credit to go around than Mr. Lynne has seen fit to dole out.
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Post by jackpunch on Aug 29, 2018 19:50:11 GMT
I can't speak for anyone else but Richard was and is very much a part of MY ELO. He had more to do with the sound of ELO than Bev though Bev was a great drummer. I credit Roy for recognizing Jeff's talent and giving him the boost he needed early on but thats about it. As far as realizing how fans feel about him, how can he not know? To follow up on what Tightrope and queenofthehours said... Listening carefully and critically to the "Golden Years" of ELO - 1974 to 1979 - it becomes clear to me that Richard was a significant contributor to ELO's sound. I have come to believe that less informed fans give too much credit to Louis Clark for the orchestra, when he was more of a conductor and transcriber. I picture Jeff and Richard sitting at the keyboard, playing the string parts for Louis, who did little more than transcribe the notes for cellos, violin, and whatever instruments Jeff wanted to use. Certainly Louis was classically trained, which neither Jeff nor Richard were, but Richard had such an excellent ear for the keyboard, and Jeff for the overall concept of how he wanted things to sound, that 94% of the credit goes to those two, 2% to Bev, 2% to Clark, and 2% to the other musicians who performed on the albums, be they hired members of the string section or other members of ELO. I have no idea how to divide the credit up between Jeff and Richard, except I'm sure the lion's share goes to Jeff. Obviously Jeff wrote the songs. I'm talking about the "sound," the style of the songs, the orchestra riffs, the characteristic musicality that told us a tune was ELO. Go ahead, lambast me, demean me, tell me I'm wrong. None of us really knows because I don't think we were in the studio in those days. Let's discuss it. OK, I'll take you to task on it. I don't like the OTT strings of Eldorado and the golden years particularly. However, it's 90% Louis's work... Listen to Hooked on Classics, it's garbage but it's like ELO plays Mozart, Beethoven et al. I much prefer the strings from Time but I really don't think that Richard and Jeff had that much input into the string parts from Eldorado onwards
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Post by tightrope on Aug 29, 2018 21:10:41 GMT
To follow up on what Tightrope and queenofthehours said... Listening carefully and critically to the "Golden Years" of ELO - 1974 to 1979 - it becomes clear to me that Richard was a significant contributor to ELO's sound. I have come to believe that less informed fans give too much credit to Louis Clark for the orchestra, when he was more of a conductor and transcriber. I picture Jeff and Richard sitting at the keyboard, playing the string parts for Louis, who did little more than transcribe the notes for cellos, violin, and whatever instruments Jeff wanted to use. Certainly Louis was classically trained, which neither Jeff nor Richard were, but Richard had such an excellent ear for the keyboard, and Jeff for the overall concept of how he wanted things to sound, that 94% of the credit goes to those two, 2% to Bev, 2% to Clark, and 2% to the other musicians who performed on the albums, be they hired members of the string section or other members of ELO. I have no idea how to divide the credit up between Jeff and Richard, except I'm sure the lion's share goes to Jeff. Obviously Jeff wrote the songs. I'm talking about the "sound," the style of the songs, the orchestra riffs, the characteristic musicality that told us a tune was ELO. Go ahead, lambast me, demean me, tell me I'm wrong. None of us really knows because I don't think we were in the studio in those days. Let's discuss it. OK, I'll take you to task on it. I don't like the OTT strings of Eldorado and the golden years particularly. However, it's 90% Louis's work... Listen to Hooked on Classics, it's garbage but it's like ELO plays Mozart, Beethoven et al. I much prefer the strings from Time but I really don't think that Richard and Jeff had that much input into the string parts from Eldorado onwards Jeff and Richard were very much involved with the strings. Everything having to do with anything went through Jeff Lynne. Using Louis Clark was the fastest way to get things done.
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Post by jackpunch on Aug 29, 2018 21:34:40 GMT
OK, I'll take you to task on it. I don't like the OTT strings of Eldorado and the golden years particularly. However, it's 90% Louis's work... Listen to Hooked on Classics, it's garbage but it's like ELO plays Mozart, Beethoven et al. I much prefer the strings from Time but I really don't think that Richard and Jeff had that much input into the string parts from Eldorado onwards Jeff and Richard were very much involved with the strings. Everything having to do with anything went through Jeff Lynne. Using Louis Clark was the fastest way to get things done. I'm not doubting that JL had the final say but the string arrangements have LC's signature all over them. Out of interest have you studied orchestration/arranging at all? I'm interested to understand why you think that the sound is Jeff and Richards given the huge difference between pre Eldorado, Time and the LC stuff. BTW I'm very much of the opinion that LC and all of the string players were right place right time rather than being anything other than half decent musicians of which there are thousands knocking about
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Post by StrangeMagic on Aug 29, 2018 23:31:33 GMT
Jeff and Richard were very much involved with the strings. Everything having to do with anything went through Jeff Lynne. Using Louis Clark was the fastest way to get things done. I'm not doubting that JL had the final say but the string arrangements have LC's signature all over them. Out of interest have you studied orchestration/arranging at all? I'm interested to understand why you think that the sound is Jeff and Richards given the huge difference between pre Eldorado, Time and the LC stuff. BTW I'm very much of the opinion that LC and all of the string players were right place right time rather than being anything other than half decent musicians of which there are thousands knocking about I don't know about arranging strings specifically, but I read and transcribe music for keyboard and guitar, and have a smattering of music theory. I think the comparison between the way ELO used strings and "Hooked on Classics" is - hmmm, what's a polite word? - off-base. "Hooked on Classics" is unadulterated garbage, pablum for the masses. ELO is pop music that is elevated by the use of strings derived from classical music and applied in a tasteful, aesthetically pleasing style. I don't think there's that much difference between OTTD and Face the Music in how the strings were used melodically, except the full orchestra was was in the mix. The variety and number of strings made it sound fuller and richer, but LC doesn't get credit for that. Wasn't it Jeff's idea to bring in the orchestra for Eldorado? Obviously they would need an arranger going forward. That distinctive high-low-medium-low note pattern used throughout Jeff's string work with ELO was already in place by On the Third Day, so Louis Clark didn't come up with that. Maybe it was Ted Blight's idea. Ha ha. It isn't that unusual a string note pattern anyway. Interesting discussion.
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Post by Chippa on Sept 2, 2018 20:30:09 GMT
I thought everyone knew that Richard had carpal tunnel surgery, which has probably required extensive rehab.
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Post by bumper on Sept 14, 2018 15:21:35 GMT
Is there a possibility that Richard was not happy has not forgiven Jeff for not inviting Bev to the RRHOF awards? or is it only coincidence that he hasn't played on tour since then?
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Post by Chippa on Sept 14, 2018 20:17:30 GMT
Is there a possibility that Richard was not happy has not forgiven Jeff for not inviting Bev to the RRHOF awards? or is it only coincidence that he hasn't played on tour since then? Bev was invited by the RRHOF, but couldn't make it. Richard had carpal tunnel surgery.
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Post by StrangeMagic on Sept 15, 2018 4:18:28 GMT
Is there a possibility that Richard was not happy has not forgiven Jeff for not inviting Bev to the RRHOF awards? or is it only coincidence that he hasn't played on tour since then? I think it's a huge mistake to attribute motivation to people we don't know based on coincidence and casual observation.
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Post by Timeblue on Oct 9, 2018 10:01:14 GMT
With no mention from Jeff regarding RT at the Manchester show last week,and the fact that RT had treatment for his ailment last year then rumours will surely flourish. I've had CTS and without surgery it went on its own within 2 months,so with Richard having surgery, surely he's cured by now? If he has retired,we would have heard about it by now. Just my humble observations of course....
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Post by Timeblue on Oct 9, 2018 11:26:15 GMT
Also,I remember Jeff saying at Wembley last year that RT would be back for this year's tour,is this comment on the DVD?
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Post by eloneen on Oct 9, 2018 11:37:05 GMT
I don't remember if it was mentioned on the DVD. It could be that RT had a severe case. His health is his personal business. But even in the absence of a health condition, he could have just decided to retire. None of the guys are spring chickens anymore.
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Post by cleldo on Oct 9, 2018 13:57:44 GMT
Whatever the reason I think we should all just wish Richard all the best and that we are missing him.
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Post by soonerorlater on Oct 9, 2018 15:22:20 GMT
While I will always wish the very best for Richard, this whole matter underlines an element of Jeff that continues to frustrate.
In 2016 he introduced RT every night on stage as his great friend. In 2017 he explained that he couldn't be with the band at the moment but he would be back for the next tour and yes, he allowed that comment to feature on the Wembley Or Bust Blu-ray/DVD. Now, in 2018, no mention at all and yet it was Jeff who led us to this point of expectation.
Richard Tandy deserves his privacy. All it would have taken is a short 'Richard has decided not to be on this year's tour but wishes the band well' statement from the management team and it would be case (almost) closed.
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Post by Chippa on Oct 9, 2018 17:02:27 GMT
Perhaps Richard doesn't want the whole world knowing his personal business. They owe us no explanation, so let's stop acting like we're entitled to something.
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