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Post by Nightrider on Jul 3, 2014 23:09:07 GMT
There are two different versions of Endless Lies (one on BOP, one on SM). Does anyone know why?
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Post by skyclad1904 on Jul 3, 2014 23:23:06 GMT
"Endless Lies" was recorded for the "secret messages" album. After the decision was made, to release this not as a double album it was left from the final release. It was a bonus track on the remastered version of secret messages in 2001. The version on "balance of power" was reworked and edited to fit better to the sound from that album. I prefer the secret messages version...
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Post by 88keys on Jul 4, 2014 21:23:46 GMT
I prefer the SM version, too. "Sometimes I think I live on a merry-go-round".....I love that part!
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wilburysteve
Junior Member
You can be The Master of your own fate.
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Post by wilburysteve on Jul 6, 2014 18:13:44 GMT
The Secret Messages version is better I agree.
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Post by Nightrider on Jul 6, 2014 20:26:16 GMT
"Endless Lies" was recorded for the "secret messages" album. After the decision was made, to release this not as a double album it was left from the final release. It was a bonus track on the remastered version of secret messages in 2001. The version on "balance of power" was reworked and edited to fit better to the sound from that album. I prefer the secret messages version... Thanks for your answer! I haven't listened to the Secret Messages version that often..
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Post by Nightrider on Jul 6, 2014 20:27:41 GMT
"Endless Lies" was recorded for the "secret messages" album. After the decision was made, to release this not as a double album it was left from the final release. It was a bonus track on the remastered version of secret messages in 2001. The version on "balance of power" was reworked and edited to fit better to the sound from that album. I prefer the secret messages version... Thanks for your answer! I haven't listened to the Secret Messages version that often, but I heard that the 'merry-go-round'-part is different.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 18:20:27 GMT
Because I am so used to the BOP version I get thrown when I listen to the SM version. IMHO Endless Lies is the absolute standout track on the otherwise underwhelming BOP.
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Post by ShardEnder on Oct 30, 2015 22:52:33 GMT
The version on "balance of power" was reworked and edited to fit better to the sound from that album. I prefer the secret messages version... I have to agree with you that the original version of Endless Lies is superior, but I can exclusively reveal it wasn't reworked simply to better fit on Balance Of Power. Apart from the "merry go round" section, virtually everything else is identical in the 1986 mix (with the exception of a rather prominent ride cymbal during the verses that was ultimately muted). The real reason Jeff - not Mack, as often suggested - decided to change that one little part was because it would have meant crediting and therefore potentially having to pay Dave Morgan, who provided the vocal sample you can hear repeatedly panning across the sound field. At this rate, I'm not going to have any genuinely new content left for my upcoming book on the making of Secret Messages... Who am I kidding? You're all worth it! EDIT: Sorry, my initial explanation was simplified perhaps a little too much. Jeff actually decided to rework that whole section of Endless Lies because he looked back and thought the lyrics weren't up to scratch, plus not even the studio documentation could explain just who did what on the original 1982 recording. As one of the songs produced in the wake of Kelly's departure later into the album's creation, Dave contributed a lot more than a simple "hey!" chant, also being responsible for a lot of the background vocals. Because it was his synthesiser (which he called Dennis, but was actually a modified Oberheim) that played such elements, he's also the one behind that "work!" shout heard throughout Bluebird, plus the title being similarly looped before the fade, although in this case he was pitch shifted down. #TheMoreYouKnow
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 6:28:00 GMT
ShardEnder, I bow to your greatness. Seriously, you have done your homework, and I am truly thankful.
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Post by BSJ on Oct 31, 2015 9:16:31 GMT
Yes, ShardEnder spoils us - he's very generous sharing his ELO knowledge.
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Post by soonerorlater on Nov 2, 2015 13:24:23 GMT
I've got to say (and please don't think that I'm being contrary for the sake of it!) that I much prefer the BOP version. It just seems to flow better. As ole mentions, I get thrown when I listen to the Secret Messages original because I'm so used to it sounding different.
When I first learned that the song had been 'recycled' from Secret Messages to Balance Of Power I simply assumed that Jeff had been short of material for BOP. The fact that there are a fair few non-album BOP tracks around and available, e.g. Destination Unknown, Caught In A Trap/In For The Kill and Matter Of Fact (x 2) suggests otherwise so he must have seen something in Endless Lies that made it worth re-recording.
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Post by ShardEnder on Nov 2, 2015 23:45:41 GMT
I wouldn't call the Balance Of Power version a re-recording, but rather Jeff tightening up a song that he'd already produced to a level where he felt it was album worthy. He obviously wasn't happy with that bridge section, and the lack of either Matter Of Fact suggests this was never a serious contender. On the other hand, I've been reliably informed that the 1985 version of the album would have included Destination Unknown and Caught In A Trap, only they were forced off by CBS, who felt Jeff's lyrics weren't vague enough on his personal situation. Ironically, the latter's earlier take (In For The Kill) didn't just make his professional feelings even more obvious, but also painted a rather accurate image of the original cover design for Secret Messages, suggesting this was yet another 1982 era outtake lyrically, if not musically as well. Rather than rework either of these, he reduced both to b-side status and replaced Destination Unknown with the similar Send It, recorded when he was meant to have been simply remixing preexisting material. As for Caught In A Trap, he switched this out for the reworked Endless Lies, though I've still no idea of the preliminary running order. What I can be sure of is that Rob Caiger officially confirmed ELO's label weren't aware of the alternate Heaven Only Knows until this suddenly appeared as a potential bonus track for the Balance Of Power remaster, so it's safe to say this wasn't the opening track, possibly already modified by Jeff prior to anyone hearing it. Despite being voted off the album, it's telling that Destination Unknown was then later issued as a promotional single to coincide with the release of the Afterglow boxed set, even featuring on a rare sampler disc and heavily advertised as a "new" song!
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