|
Post by Helmut83 on Sept 10, 2014 15:53:11 GMT
Hey Helmut, should I sign you up to feature the CD of the week for Sept. 21 -27? Since BSJ has next week. Jim Sure!
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 10, 2014 16:50:35 GMT
Hey Helmut, should I sign you up to feature the CD of the week for Sept. 21 -27? Since BSJ has next week. Jim Sure! OK, you are officially marked down on the list in the sign-up thread! Don't tell us what it is, just let us know on Sept. 21! Looking forward to BSJ next week and you the following week! Jim
|
|
|
Post by unomusette on Sept 10, 2014 22:05:31 GMT
This is such a great idea for a thread, getting different perspectives on something you think you already know inside out. I'm really going to try and listen to all the previous albums and expand my mind. For a start I've always meant to get into the Moody Blues so here's a perfect chance.
Thanks for your in-depth review, Helmut - that bonus track is off a different album called Deadlines which I've not listened to a lot but is more proggy than this one. You're right when you say this is poppy I think, a proper late '70s vibe as Jim spotted. And I like your comparison of Back in Old Routine with Sunny Afternoon, perfect.
Must say though, Don't Stop Believing is epic to sing along to. Those high notes! Won't expect a Journey album to be appearing here any time soon.
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 10, 2014 22:37:22 GMT
Here's the thoughts I put down for each song. I will continue to play it for the rest of the week and send any additional thoughts. "Burning for Me" (Dave Cousins, John Mealing) – 4:01 - Nice song, like it. Singer sounds a little bit like Cat Stevens. Like the tasteful guitar soloing at the end of it. "Cut Like a Diamond" (Cousins, Chas Cronk) – 3:44 - Reminds me of a mellower version of Kansas. Seems like they have a strong lyrical emphasis. Nice chorus and poetic imagery, I like this one too. "I Feel Your Loving Coming On" (Dave Lambert) – 2:56 - Nice arrangement. Good vocalist on this one. "Barcarole (For the Death of Venice)" (Cousins, Cronk) – 3:25 - Not The Beatles "If I Fell" or Simon and Garfunkel's "Scarborough Fair", but pretty decent harmonizing song. I like it, it's unique. "Alexander the Great" (Cousins, Lambert) – 3:59 - OK, but kind of a lame attempt to be funny, doesn't really connect with me. "Keep on Trying" (Cousins, Cronk) – 3:15 - It's losin' me here, hard to pay attention. "Back in the Old Routine" (Cousins, Cronk, Lambert) – 3:17 - I like this one, nice chords, etc. A relief from the previous two. "Heartbreaker" (Lambert) – 4:40- Consistent with the rest of the album. They need to start breaking some more original ground on this album though. "Carry Me Home" (Cronk) – 3:28 - This one is my favorite, I like this one a lot. "Goodbye (Is Not an Easy Word to Say)" (Cousins) – 3:44 - Good tune, like it a lot. Bonus track[edit] The Japanese re-issue CD included the following track: - "Joey and Me" (Cousins) - Another really nice one. Well definitely try to get me a cheap copy of this one. Thanks for sharing and expanding my horizons, unomusette! The only real difference I see with anyone else's reviews, is I found "Heartbreaker" to be more along the run of the mill / average songs. But maybe on the next listen, I will start to see the light on that one. Jim
|
|
|
Post by unomusette on Sept 10, 2014 22:56:00 GMT
Thanks Jim for another well thought out review and another different perspective. I meant to say earlier that it's interesting to hear what musicians think of songs, the chords and arrangement mean a lot more to them. One of the things I always mean to ask my musical idols, should I ever get hold of them, is whether they can enjoy other peoples' music without mentally dissecting it and seeing how differently they would have done it.
Loved your comment on Back in the Old Routine,that it was a relief after the other two:D And still you kept on to the end and are still playing it, you deserve a medal.
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on Sept 11, 2014 1:33:28 GMT
Must say though, Don't Stop Believing is epic to sing along to. Those high notes! Well, to each one their own. In my case, after being reminded by the Strawbs' song about "Don't stop believing", I thought "was that song so terrible as I recall? Let's give it another listen". The experience ended up inspiring me that question about hell I posted on the "Open discussion" section. Won't expect a Journey album to be appearing here any time soon. I won't post it, you can be sure about that. Also, I've changed my mind a bit. Now I agree with jrmugz about "Carry me home" beng the best song of the album.
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on Sept 11, 2014 1:45:58 GMT
One of the things I always mean to ask my musical idols, should I ever get hold of them, is whether they can enjoy other peoples' music without mentally dissecting it and seeing how differently they would have done it. That's an intelligent question and I would be interested in knowing that too, but if I had to risk what answers I would get, I'd bet I would get more "no"s than "yes". Once you start learning the basics of musical harmony, if you are passionate about it you can't help but listening to the songs (the ones that you are interested in, of course) in a different way. I can tell you that, even with my very limited knowledge of music, it happens to me to a certain extent that I'm mentally trying to figure out the chords sequences, the bass note inversions, the distance between vocal harmonies, etc... Now take that to a professional musician's level and I can't imagine they don't tend to mentally dissect music and say "I would have done this or that differently".
|
|
|
Post by BSJ on Sept 11, 2014 17:03:33 GMT
I try not to read any of the other members reviews before I write mine – otherwise I’d just rip ya’ off.
The Strawbs started off as a bluegrass band called Strawberry Hill Boys in the sixties? From their style at this point, you could fool me. A lot of interesting musicians played in the band throughout the years. Rick Wakeman was one.
I played this album for a few hours. (Half the time was spent flipping the thing over.)
I think Dave Cousins serrated voice is great for both rock and ballads. Hear a bit of Phil Collins.
Burning For Me: Great opener. Cut Like a Diamond: Is a great song with the band playing tight and kicking butt. Love this, he growls. I Feel Your Love Coming On: Some nice bits, like his voice and guitar. Barcarole… Venice: Tried. Lordy, I tried. Alex The Great: I could clean my house and the neighbors listening to this. Dancing. Keep on Trying: A nice opener for side two. A sweet song and vocal. Back In the Old Routine: Tried. Twenties sound. Heartbreaker: Starts off with a bit of Classical Jazz notes? Ohhhh ya! Like the guitars and Cousins vocals, particularly at the end. Carry Me Home: Did not take much effort to like this song. A lighting of candles in concert moment. Goodbye… Say: It’s o.k. – downer. Any album should end with me wanting to do a flip.
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 11, 2014 22:04:56 GMT
One of the things I always mean to ask my musical idols, should I ever get hold of them, is whether they can enjoy other peoples' music without mentally dissecting it and seeing how differently they would have done it. That's an intelligent question and I would be interested in knowing that too, but if I had to risk what answers I would get, I'd bet I would get more "no"s than "yes". Once you start learning the basics of musical harmony, if you are passionate about it you can't help but listening to the songs (the ones that you are interested in, of course) in a different way. I can tell you that, even with my very limited knowledge of music, it happens to me to a certain extent that I'm mentally trying to figure out the chords sequences, the bass note inversions, the distance between vocal harmonies, etc... Now take that to a professional musician's level and I can't imagine they don't tend to mentally dissect music and say "I would have done this or that differently". Well as someone who is not a professional at all, but who makes up chord progressions, in a very slow-bake manner, what I tend to do, is sense if a song may have been rushed or not. Like, would this song be better if more time was taken to perfect it, or was it rushed out to meet a deadline? Usually I don't analyze songs, I assume they were made just as they want to be as the final product for maximal artist satisfaction and maximal sales. But if something does sound strange or sloppy in a song, I might perceive they were doing a rush job to get something released. Or sometimes, I've felt that where an artist gave a rough sketch of it to be raw and authentic, I usually like that, but sometimes it's like c'mon couldn't they have at least cleaned this or that part up a little. Also, sometimes in the case of say, an Alice Cooper, that is an artist that has a gimmick, I've felt that sometimes some really good musical arrangements got sacrificed at the expense of pushing the gimmick. I think the song "Blue Turk" from the "School's Out" album is a good example. Very cool music, with atrocious lyrics, that could have been much better if he didn't have the mentality of "OK, i'm going to feed the Alice Cooper the disgusting guy image on the lyrics for this." Jim
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 12, 2014 20:10:02 GMT
Strawbs "Burning for You" is sounding better each time I play it. And the louder the more I get out of it, too.
Good band, what would be their next best album that you would recommend for us, unomusette, I see they have quite a few?
Jim
|
|
|
Post by unomusette on Sept 12, 2014 22:44:46 GMT
Was AWOL last night due to going to see a comedian whilst sitting on a ridiculously uncomfortable seat which subtracted approximately 50% of the enjoyment, so to come back to all this interesting feedback is a proper treat, let me tell you. Can't say I'm sorry that Helmut was inspired to begin his Hell thread, it's a legend already. Plus every time I screech along to DSB I'll imagine him squirming. Thanks to Jim, and to Helmut again, for your insight into a musician's view of other peoples' songs. Does viewing songs like that detract from the enjoyment, would you say? Or do you enjoy it all the more for seeing more depth? I'd agree with Jim that the rawness of some songs is part of their charm (eg John Otway, The Ramones), but not if it's happened because of laziness or haste and you know they could have done better. BSJ. What can I say? Your devotion to research is astonishing. Not to mention I'm still awe-struck that you have the vinyl and have flipped it endlessly in the cause of enlightenment. It's much better not to read other peoples' ideas (and often read back and see they had exactly the opposite views to you)and be true to your soul. Yes, I do believe you have a soul. Somewhere deep down. And I'm chuffed to beans you mostly seem to like this album, I am picturing you doing the Housework Jig all over the place and it's making me grin hugely. As for other albums to try it depends if you like folky, proggy or poppy I suppose. There's a double compilation called Halcyon Days which covers a good range including their best known stuff but strangely nothing off Burning for You. Looking at the tracklist now it has some absolute corkers on it, including the sublime Lay Down, thought provoking Hangman and the Papist (with Rick Wakeman I think) Down By The Sea with its epic outro, the slightly saucy Out in the Cold, Ghosts with its amazing nightmare lyrics, Hero and Heroine with deranged vocals and serious message, just loads of goodies. If you like it really folky there's Preserves Uncanned, another double, which won a Grammy I think. They had the usual schism somewhere in the 70's when one of the founder members wanted to carry on being folk and the rest wanted to go more commercial. They still tour regularly, sometimes acoustic, sometimes electric, always a good night in a small venue where you can meet them afterwards if you like. Their website will update you with emails if you sign up www.strawbsweb.co.uk/index0.htm
|
|
|
Post by Helmut83 on Sept 13, 2014 2:41:41 GMT
Thanks to Jim, and to Helmut again, for your insight into a musician's view of other peoples' songs. Does viewing songs like that detract from the enjoyment, would you say? Or do you enjoy it all the more for seeing more depth? Unomusette, without falling into false modesty, I wouldn't say my insight but my guess of a musician's view, because playing music at an aficionado level in no way makes me a musician, in the same way that playing football (soccer) with friends doesn't make me a football player. In any case, I don't think it detracts the enjoyment. On the contrary, it may increase it and make the experience better. First of all, you unconsciously learn to listen to music on different levels. When I didn't even know what a chord was, music was mostly an uniform mass to me, I took it as a whole. Now I am able to hear different layers (different instruments or groups of instruments) and how they combine with each other, and I think that enhances my enjoyment. Second, you realize how much merit there is in creating a melody that goes smoothly over a strange chords sequence. That's creating a really original song. Just to give some examples, "Let it be" is a fantastic song and you have to credit Paul for the melody, but it's built over an extremely common chords sequence and only uses 4 simple chords (then came Bob Marley and wrote "No woman, no cry", which is built over a very similar chords sequence). Instead, "Above the clouds" or "Midnight blue" are in my opinion real jewels in terms of harmony because you won't find anything too similar, they are built over very original and more complex chords sequences. Knowing that Jeff was able to do that makes you admire much more his genius and appreciate more widely the value of those songs. The bad part may be that all the time you find a song too similar to other song and you realize much more about plagiarism in everyday music. And I'm telling you all of this even when I don't have a great ear. If you want to know how someone with a great ear enjoys music when he listens to it, just ask Buttler.
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 13, 2014 9:16:10 GMT
Thanks to Jim, and to Helmut again, for your insight into a musician's view of other peoples' songs. Does viewing songs like that detract from the enjoyment, would you say? Or do you enjoy it all the more for seeing more depth? Unomusette, without falling into false modesty, I wouldn't say my insight but my guess of a musician's view, because playing music at an aficionado level in no way makes me a musician, in the same way that playing football (soccer) with friends doesn't make me a football player. In any case, I don't think it detracts the enjoyment. On the contrary, it may increase it and make the experience better. First of all, you unconsciously learn to listen to music on different levels. When I didn't even know what a chord was, music was mostly an uniform mass to me, I took it as a whole. Now I am able to hear different layers (different instruments or groups of instruments) and how they combine with each other, and I think that enhances my enjoyment. Second, you realize how much merit there is in creating a melody that goes smoothly over a strange chords sequence. That's creating a really original song. Just to give some examples, "Let it be" is a fantastic song and you have to credit Paul for the melody, but it's built over an extremely common chords sequence and only uses 4 simple chords (then came Bob Marley and wrote "No woman, no cry", which is built over a very similar chords sequence). Instead, "Above the clouds" or "Midnight blue" are in my opinion real jewels in terms of harmony because you won't find anything too similar, they are built over very original and more complex chords sequences. Knowing that Jeff was able to do that makes you admire much more his genius and appreciate more widely the value of those songs. The bad part may be that all the time you find a song too similar to other song and you realize much more about plagiarism in everyday music. And I'm telling you all of this even when I don't have a great ear. If you want to know how someone with a great ear enjoys music when he listens to it, just ask Buttler. I guess Helmut's explanation reflects my response to the question too. It makes it more interesting, rather than detracting from it. But the one exception for me, is when they ruin a song unnecessarily with bad lyrics to cater to something other than making the best song possible. A few too many missed oppurtunites on some early Alice Cooper albums; but since he became a Christian he's gotten way better beginning with his album "The Last Tempation" in the early 90s, where he puts his imagination to more better use in concept albums, etc. that work towards an overall good point. And like if full price of a brand new CD was paid, and then there's some sloppy things on it in the name of raw/authenticity, that has made me mad on a couple occassions. To me, a song can be just as authentic with the unnecessary rough edges smoothed out. Along the same lines, I hate when an older artist decides to drop some f-bombs, and you can sense its a desperate attempt to try to look/feel youthful and stay relevant. Like say, Bruce Springsteen's "Queen of the Supermarket" from his "Working on a Dream" CD. Yeah, if money is paid for a CD, and you feel the artist was trying to solidify an image or nail a demographic, it can be annoying. Bob Seger is a guy I wish Jeff would produce, he has great songs, but just feel sometime like he's trying to hard to appeal to all audiences sometimes. Maybe Jeff could make him be the raw/authentic without the sloppiness, like he had success doing with Tom Petty to a degree, though Petty's lyrics like "you're so bad, you're the best thing I ever had" seem contrived to appeal to the white trash crowd and sell a few records in that direction, as opposed to something much more down to earth and believable like the "Highway Companion" CD that Jeff produced for him years later. Jim
|
|
|
Post by jrmugz on Sept 13, 2014 9:25:12 GMT
On the note of plagiarism that Helmut brought up, I couldn't help but wonder if The Strawbs were tempted to Sue Eddie Van Halen for his "Right Now" introduction, which seems like it could have been totally ripped off from the "Burning for You" title track. Seems like EVH just took that exact thing and fleshed it out a little more, but sounds almost the exact same to me. Was I the only one to notice/think that or did anyone else pick up on it? From a quick Google search, I see that one other person at least shared my thought on that. groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Witchwood/conversations/topics/31348Jim
|
|
|
Post by unomusette on Sept 13, 2014 20:23:15 GMT
Thanks Helmut and Jim, whatever level you feel you're at musician-wise, be sure you are way above me. It strikes me as marvellous that a person can play something on a guitar and sing something different over it without getting muddled up. That's the level I'm at.
So hearing your views have at least helped me understand how a musically experienced person listens to songs, until I get hold of Jeff himself that's the info I'll keep.
See what you mean about the VH song too, Jim, never heard it before but the similarity jumps out. Strawbs have a song which is very reminiscent of Alice Cooper too, which is on an album they were recording in the same studios as him, when I first heard it I was convinced he'd pinched the idea from them, not the song itself but the kind of mood, tinkly yet threatening. Just found it on Youtube and spookily it has a pic of the cover of Burning for You with it. It's mainly in the intro and outro to the first part (Tears) the second part is just a jolly twinkly tune.
|
|