Post by Helmut83 on Dec 3, 2015 16:49:32 GMT
Hi Horacewimp and other forum users who want to give their 5 cents.
Regarding the subjects that have given origin to some heated-up discussions -to call them so- during these past few days and the apparent consensus, at least by a few users, about some rules that should be followed, I wanted to make you a few questions and express a few opinions.
First of all I want to make clear that I have no interest in keeping on arguing about those things. That's past. I think the old users know me well enough to know that I don't look for trouble and that I may be a bit hot-headed but I've been on the forums since 3 years and a half ago and other than this I never had trouble with anyone else. I'm not a hater and those discussions tire me up as much as anyone else. This is not about that. What I want to know is what the rules are for the future, because I'm pretty sure there will be situations in which we will have to know them precisely to avoid that kind of discussion.
A couple of days ago the user bmac posted an opinion, no doubt with the best intention of keeping this place peaceful, even though peace had already been made by then. On it, Bmac said that places like this is where people come to appreciate an artists’ work and if there were users who criticized some of Jeff’s work things could get hairy because disagreements tend to generate that. Here go the parts of his comment that are relevant to this subject:
"I have always considered these types of places to be where people go to appreciate an artists work. Have never understood why people would feel the need to post if they don't like something, (...) We are almost never upset when people agree with our assessments. It is when they don't that things can get a bit hairy" (the whole comment can be read on this thread).
Horace, downwards you say those are wise words, so you probably agree with his opinion. My question is: are you going to make it a forum policy?
Are we still allowed to be critic towards Jeff Lynne's work? Or will this be forbidden or regarded as a conduct which other members of the forum don't want or consider bad?
If you ask me for my five cents, I'd say so far there has been a lot of freedom of speech (as long as it was exercised with respect towards others, of course) and a lot of tolerance on this forum. I appreciate that a lot, so my opinion is contrary to that of bmac in that aspect. On the old forum and this one -which is pretty much a continuation of Chippa's forum- far worse things have been said by lots of users about many of Jeff Lynne's songs and there was never a bad reaction or anyone proposing to shut down opinions of people who don't like those songs or don't agree with our assessments. I value that freedom of expression a lot and I wouldn't want to lose it, but I know there are lots of other users (particularly these days) and if a majority prefers to not have any dissent because that grants peace probably those will be the rules.
As you know, I'm as much a Jeff Lynne fan as anyone else here and I've been waiting for his album since ages. Reviews are a common thing on this forum (both of ELO albums and of other artists' albums on the CD of the Week section), so I thought why wouldn't I, when Jeff Lynne's album finally came out, give my honest review about it? In my case it's not as Bmac says that I go to a certain site to appreciate or criticize... I've been here since way before, and I didn't know if I would like Jeff's album from 2015, so giving my review was the most natural thing I think.
As for the review itself... was it too strong? This may be a point. I read it again and I don't find it so. I don't see it aggressive or tending to offend readers, but I could be wrong and not have an objective appreciation over what I myself have written. Again, I think so far giving a review like that used to be quite a normal thing here. Besides, in my review I point out several positive things as well, so it's not like I made a point of destroying Jeff's work just to bother others. I was the first one who was wishing to like AITU as much as I liked "Time" or "Out of the Blue", but unfortunately that didn't happen.
To give an example of what I like from this forum there’s the CD of the Week section, where everyone gives their honest reviews week after week. Each participant there –myself included- has had a few of their favorite artists criticized and no one ever took it bad. In any case, it's just a “what a pity you didn't enjoy the album" and that’s it. I think that's a peace that's worth having, as opposed to a peace that is such because no one is allowed to express a different opinion because things could get hairy. I think we should aim at being mature enough to accept other people not liking and criticizing some of our admired artist's work without things getting hairy. However, I take it that the dynamics of the forum today with so many people are a little bit different than they used to be when we were always the same users and we quite knew each other, and things may be more difficult to control, so I’m not sure if the same atmosphere of the CD of the Week section can be reproduced on the whole forum.
On a side note, BSJ and Janne also were very critic with the album. Their opinions were quite short while I managed to give a detailed review, that's probably why it was taken so much worse, but what I want to point out is that I wasn't the only one.
Well, if Jeff releases a new album I don't like or has a bad live performance, so far I'm planning on commenting about (what I think are) the goods and bads of what he has done like I always did, so I'd like to know this beforehand: will critics to Jeff Lynne's work be allowed on this forum if they are done reasonably?
Regarding the subjects that have given origin to some heated-up discussions -to call them so- during these past few days and the apparent consensus, at least by a few users, about some rules that should be followed, I wanted to make you a few questions and express a few opinions.
First of all I want to make clear that I have no interest in keeping on arguing about those things. That's past. I think the old users know me well enough to know that I don't look for trouble and that I may be a bit hot-headed but I've been on the forums since 3 years and a half ago and other than this I never had trouble with anyone else. I'm not a hater and those discussions tire me up as much as anyone else. This is not about that. What I want to know is what the rules are for the future, because I'm pretty sure there will be situations in which we will have to know them precisely to avoid that kind of discussion.
A couple of days ago the user bmac posted an opinion, no doubt with the best intention of keeping this place peaceful, even though peace had already been made by then. On it, Bmac said that places like this is where people come to appreciate an artists’ work and if there were users who criticized some of Jeff’s work things could get hairy because disagreements tend to generate that. Here go the parts of his comment that are relevant to this subject:
"I have always considered these types of places to be where people go to appreciate an artists work. Have never understood why people would feel the need to post if they don't like something, (...) We are almost never upset when people agree with our assessments. It is when they don't that things can get a bit hairy" (the whole comment can be read on this thread).
Horace, downwards you say those are wise words, so you probably agree with his opinion. My question is: are you going to make it a forum policy?
Are we still allowed to be critic towards Jeff Lynne's work? Or will this be forbidden or regarded as a conduct which other members of the forum don't want or consider bad?
If you ask me for my five cents, I'd say so far there has been a lot of freedom of speech (as long as it was exercised with respect towards others, of course) and a lot of tolerance on this forum. I appreciate that a lot, so my opinion is contrary to that of bmac in that aspect. On the old forum and this one -which is pretty much a continuation of Chippa's forum- far worse things have been said by lots of users about many of Jeff Lynne's songs and there was never a bad reaction or anyone proposing to shut down opinions of people who don't like those songs or don't agree with our assessments. I value that freedom of expression a lot and I wouldn't want to lose it, but I know there are lots of other users (particularly these days) and if a majority prefers to not have any dissent because that grants peace probably those will be the rules.
As you know, I'm as much a Jeff Lynne fan as anyone else here and I've been waiting for his album since ages. Reviews are a common thing on this forum (both of ELO albums and of other artists' albums on the CD of the Week section), so I thought why wouldn't I, when Jeff Lynne's album finally came out, give my honest review about it? In my case it's not as Bmac says that I go to a certain site to appreciate or criticize... I've been here since way before, and I didn't know if I would like Jeff's album from 2015, so giving my review was the most natural thing I think.
As for the review itself... was it too strong? This may be a point. I read it again and I don't find it so. I don't see it aggressive or tending to offend readers, but I could be wrong and not have an objective appreciation over what I myself have written. Again, I think so far giving a review like that used to be quite a normal thing here. Besides, in my review I point out several positive things as well, so it's not like I made a point of destroying Jeff's work just to bother others. I was the first one who was wishing to like AITU as much as I liked "Time" or "Out of the Blue", but unfortunately that didn't happen.
To give an example of what I like from this forum there’s the CD of the Week section, where everyone gives their honest reviews week after week. Each participant there –myself included- has had a few of their favorite artists criticized and no one ever took it bad. In any case, it's just a “what a pity you didn't enjoy the album" and that’s it. I think that's a peace that's worth having, as opposed to a peace that is such because no one is allowed to express a different opinion because things could get hairy. I think we should aim at being mature enough to accept other people not liking and criticizing some of our admired artist's work without things getting hairy. However, I take it that the dynamics of the forum today with so many people are a little bit different than they used to be when we were always the same users and we quite knew each other, and things may be more difficult to control, so I’m not sure if the same atmosphere of the CD of the Week section can be reproduced on the whole forum.
On a side note, BSJ and Janne also were very critic with the album. Their opinions were quite short while I managed to give a detailed review, that's probably why it was taken so much worse, but what I want to point out is that I wasn't the only one.
Well, if Jeff releases a new album I don't like or has a bad live performance, so far I'm planning on commenting about (what I think are) the goods and bads of what he has done like I always did, so I'd like to know this beforehand: will critics to Jeff Lynne's work be allowed on this forum if they are done reasonably?